Arseholes, considered as a strategic resource
Why didn't the Egyptian army fire on the demonstrators. Because they had learned how to be nice from the American army?. I think not. Looking at the TV pictures, the Egyptian Army didn't start anything because they didn't get on the streets early enough, and by the time they had, the crowd had got so big that I would imagine the phrase "torn limb from limb" might have been drifting through a few minds.
Numbers make a difference. An invading army can take over a city quite quickly; partly because an invading foreign army can usually be reasonably sure that all the guns are pointing in the same direction, partly because an invading army has physical momentum and has worked out ahead of time where it is marching to, but mainly because the population of an invaded city are usually not on the streets in anything like the numbers seen in Egyptian cities. Even a tank[1] is surprisingly little protection once it has stopped moving[2] and is surrounded by a mob. I saw pictures on the news yesterday of a tank crew sitting around at the edge of a square in Cairo - I have never in my life seen the crew of a tank looking so small and vulnerable. People are still talking about the army as if it was in control of the situation and for the moment at least, it just isn't.
And so that brings me to a useful piece of advice for any readers who are aspiring dictators, one that the Communists knew, Suharto knew, but that some modern day tyrants seem to have forgotten. There is always a level of civil unrest that outstrips the capability of even the most loyal and largest regular armed forces to deal with. In all likelihood, as a medium sized emerging market, you will have a capital city with a population of about five or six million, meaing potentially as many as three million adults on the streets in the worst case. Your total active-duty armed forces are unlikely to be a tenth of that. When it becomes a numbers game, there is only one thing that can save you.
And that is, a reactionary citizens' militia, to combat the revolutionary citizens' militia. Former socialist republics always used to be fond of buses full of coal miners from way out the back of beyond, but the Iranian basijs are the same sort of thing. Basically, what you need is a large population who are a few rungs up from the bottom of society, who aren't interested in freedom and who hate young people. In other words, arseholes. Arseholes, considered as a strategic entity, have the one useful characteristic that is the only useful characteristic in the context of an Egyptian-style popular uprising - there are fucking millions of them.
This is my advice to any aspiring dictator; early on in your career, identify and inventory all the self-pitying, bullying shitheads your country has to offer. Anyone with a grievance, a beer belly and enough strength to swing a pickaxe handle will do. You don't need to bother with military training or discipline because they're hopefully never going to be used as a proper military force - just concentrate on nuturing their sense that they, despite appearances, are the backbone of the country, and allowing them to understand that although rules are rules, there are some people who just need a slap. The bigger and burlier the better, but when the time comes they'll be fighting in groups against people weaker than themselves, often under cover of darkness, so numbers are more important than anything else. The extractive industries are indeed often a good source, as are demobbed veterans (Zimbabwe) or the laity of an established religion.
I think this is my new rule for assessing the stability of any dictatorship around the world, and I am on the lookout for any Francis Fukuyama style book contracts. The key factor in determining the survival of repressive regimes isn't economics, religion or military success. It's arseholes.
[1] Can I make it clear at this stage that if it turns out to be the case that the vehicle in question (a Warrior) is not technically a "tank" for some obscure reason of military terminology, any attempt to explain this to me will be resisted viciously with the comment delete button. It has tracks and a fucking gun.
[2] If you are sitting around on a street corner in Cairo in your tank, you have to open the hatches or you will get too hot; even the minority of tanks which have air conditioning systems will run out of fuel to run them eventually. If you open the hatches, you are no longer in a heavily armoured and invulnerable battle vehicle - you are a bloke sitting on top of a van.
Jonathan Wright is reporting the possible deployment of arseholes here:
ReplyDeletehttp://jnthnwrght.blogspot.com/2011/02/dangers-of-mubaraks-offer.html
An invading army can take over a city quite quickly
ReplyDeleteI really wish you hadn't written this particular sentence, because it's bollocks, and normally the things you write are not bollocks.
The rest of it is spot on. Tanks are of very little use in Operations in Built Up Areas, partly because their guns can't elevate high enough to hit the punters on the upper floors with the RPGs, and partly because they don't have the situational awareness because you're looking out through tiny vision blocks the size of a bar of cooking chocolate. You use them as, basically, mobile artillery for breaching walls. Infantry's king in OBUA.
Running out of fuel to run your air conditioning with is less of a problem, I should think. Aircon or not, you can't just sit in a tank for 24 hours. Apart from anything else, I don't think they have toilets, and the M1 doesn't have the handy little hatch in the floor that the M60 had.
It wasn't just socialist republics who relied on busloads of violent miners to crack heads; they turned up in Ukraine in 2004, and in the US during the Vietnam protests in the 60s and 70s. You could make a case that the UK in the 1980s was a bit of an outlier because the coal miners were actually on other side from the riot police for a change.
Not many of the "veterans" in Zimbabwe were actually old enough to have been in the Chimurenga, IIRC. They were mostly in their 20s and 30s.
When I said "an invading army can take over a city quite quickly", I was thinking of something like the fall of Paris, where what you basically have is a surrender, or the clearout of the Commune. Obviously if you do get the population out on the streets (or even more if you have a defending army dug in like in Stalingrad) that sentence would certainly appear to be a lot more bollocks than I intended it to be.
ReplyDeleteThe classic case in point of why you don't use tanks in a city is Grozny in 1994, when a Russian division of c. 10,000 men was, over the course of a day or so, systematically annihilated by the Chechens.
ReplyDeleteI'm generally chary about technological explanations for military successes, but the AK-47 and the RPG give significant advantages to urban defenders not available to the communards, who were stuck in a city designed to make insurgency impossible while armed with muzzle-loading rifles, in the main. (From memory, most of the chassepots had ended up lost along with the main French armies.)
But the 'arsehole' observation is bang on - the big flaw in the French attempts to keep hold of Algeria was that the pieds noirs, although cons, lacked the critical mass and widespread dispersal to be truly effective.
ReplyDeleteYeah this was one of the key differences between Iran and what's going on now [1]. Not sure it entirely applies to the US in the 60s though. Best I can work out they were more propagandistic (union men for Nixon) than practical in the main. Plus the students weren't terribly popular with the general population, which always helps...
ReplyDeleteMy guess is that Jordan is safe, don't know enough about Syria, but hey don't the Saudis look worried... Now that would be fun.
[1] The others being a rural/city divide (actually quite useful), and the fact the regime is rather more popular than western correspondents realize due to their inherent biases.
No, I think what did for the Commune is that there simply weren't enough of them; per "The World That Never Was", they were basically impregnable for the five minutes that they actually represented a large proportion of the population of Paris, but the moment passed and as a small bunch of politicals, they never had a chance. Yer AK47 is jolly useful for the rural guerilla and I think it probably has had a technological effect there, but for big urban revolutions, it is simply a numbers game. The Egyptian crowds don't seem to be armed at all, but nevertheless they can't be shot simply because the army would have to be carrying a thousand bullets a man, which spoils the line of the battledress pockets.
ReplyDeleteI'd probably argue the opposite - the AK-47 is of more use in short-range confined spaces, mainly because its only real disadvantage is that it isn't very accurate at medium ranges.
ReplyDeleteAnd actually, come to think of it, the Third Republic's support base was basically 'arseholes', if we use it as the proxy for the rural skilled artisan/petit bourgeois strata - Thiers had, IIRC, been elected by a landslide.
They seem to have managed to find some arseholes this morning, from an extractive industry no less (ordered state oil company people to turn out or be sacked). Doesn't seem to be anything like enough numbers, though.
ReplyDeleteOf course, trolls/wumaodang are the Internet version of this.
De Gaulle won 1968, of course, by mobilising the arsehole tendency, although he (or perhaps Andre Malraux) added an original twist in that he invited them to mobilise *peacefully*, which allowed him to mobilise arseholes who were also cowards, significantly upping the available supply of arseholes.
Arsehole pricing, live! Currently running at $68/arsehole-day. 340 days @ $68 = $23,120. Egyptian per capita GDP 2010: $6,200.
ReplyDelete1) Being an arsehole pays.
2) Fortunately, if they're having to pay 4x the average income just for arseholes, they have a serious problem.
3) This is both a problem of affordability and a political problem.
Alex: in terms of the fraction of GDP, therefore, is it more lucrative to be a Talib (see archives passim) or an arsehole?
ReplyDeleteFrom first principles, I'd expect there to be a significant risk premium built into Talib day rates.
ReplyDeleteArseholes on horseback! (or urban janjaweed?)
ReplyDeleteAt one point, a small contingent of pro-Mubarak forces on horseback and camels rushed into the anti-Mubarak crowds, swinging whips and sticks to beat people.
Plus the students weren't terribly popular with the general population
ReplyDeleteFunny, I was just reading recently about how the anti-war movement was even more unpopular than the War Itself, and therefore you should never trust a Commie, and those Trotskyists they're no different. (Started well, not sure about the conclusion.)
From first principles, I'd expect there to be a significant risk premium built into Talib day rates.
ReplyDeleteI would guess that it's not exactly risk free identifying yourself with the Mubarakist cause at present, both in terms of short term limb-from-limbishness, and long term social ostracism.
True, but I haven't seen the demonstrators come out with A-10s, heavy artillery, &c. yet.
ReplyDeleteOT: But yesterday, on hearing that Michael Lewis had written about Ireland, I joked with a friend to the gist of I bet there's something about leprechauns in it.
http://av.r.ftdata.co.uk/files/2011/02/Michael-Lewis-on-ireland2.pdf
(p.12)
Ian turns out to have a good feel for what I, or anyone else, might find interesting in rural Ireland. He will say, for example, “Over there, that’s a pretty typical
fairy ring,” and then explain, interestingly, that these circles of stones or mushrooms that occur in Irish fields are believed by
local farmers to house mythical creatures.
“Irish people actually believe in fairies?,” I ask, straining but failing to catch a glimpse of the typical fairy ring to which Ian has
just pointed. “I mean, if you walked right up and asked him to his face, ‘Do you believe
in fairies?’ most guys will deny it,” he replies. “But if you ask him to dig out the fairy ring on his property, he won’t do it. To my way of thinking, that’s believing.” And it is. It’s a tactical belief, a belief
that exists because the upside to disbelief is too small, like the former Irish belief that Irish land prices would rise forever.
That's almost self-plagiarised from his Iceland piece.
ReplyDeletethese circles of stones or mushrooms
ReplyDeleteIf it's a field that you've got the job of ploughing or mowing, the category "stones or mushrooms" is ... shall we say it needs to be disaggregated to be of practical use?
(it's not impossible that his driver, who appears to have bullshat Lewis quite thoroughly on other issues, has read his Iceland piece and is telling him what he wants to hear).
his driver, who appears to have bullshat Lewis quite thoroughly on other issues
ReplyDeleteBoy, did he ever. "Military-grade navigational system" forsooth. Are satnavs one of those bits of technology that the US inexplicably is about five years behind the rest of the world in adopting, like mobile phones?
I think it's just that the US is, generally, a less mapped country than the British Isles - I remember Bill Bryson complaining somewhere about the absence of a US equivalent of OS maps.
ReplyDeleteAlso, a top of the range satnav seems to go for about £400 max these days. They're not exactly fearsomely expensive.
I had some military-grade cornflakes for breakfast, which I ate with a military-grade spoon. On a darker note, apparently my brother has moved into digs in Swansea which have something close to military-grade plumbing and military-grade damp protection.
ReplyDeleteI will not get onto the subject of the heroic status of the bank equity analysts mentioned, other than to say that the facts of who was long and who was short which stocks are recorded in the Bloomberg ANR file and that's that. The proverb about predicting rain and building arks comes to mind.
Didn't Trotsky come up with this, but call them 'human dust', instead?
ReplyDeleteI had some military-grade cornflakes for breakfast, which I ate with a military-grade spoon.
ReplyDeleteI think it's Spanish in which the phrase "military grade" is a synonym for "of the lowest possible quality".
It is pointed out to me in email that they're in the 18th Brumaire of Louis Bounaparte, described as "the lumpen proleteriat organised as the Mobile Guard"
ReplyDeletehis driver, who appears to have bullshat Lewis quite thoroughly on other issues
ReplyDeleteAsks me not use his real name indeed... Biggest man crush ever I think.
I remember Bill Bryson complaining somewhere about the absence of a US equivalent of OS maps.
ReplyDeleteThe USGS produces terrific maps of the interesting bits (on waterproof paper - look and learn, OS) but probably not of the whole country.
"To my way of thinking, that’s believing...
ReplyDelete... Much as you are believing this line of shite I am spinning you right now, because you can see how you're going to write it up."
Have a look at the background Q&A and see the bit about the "King of the Travellers". Ian McMadeupname must be laughing like a drain right now.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure I could have written a better description of the characteristics of our beloved Tea Party Patriots. They're a reactionary guard just waiting for the right dictator to come along so they can start punching some hippies and telling young whippersnappers what's what. Good thing Bush hadn't realized they were ready to go - we dodged a bullet when Bush didn't marshal them to get an indefinite term in office though he certainly did a bang-up job of laying down a solid foundation of the principles of a dictator-lite kind of regime - torture, citizen surveillance, hypernationalism, suppression of dissent, stacking the civil service with political apparatchiks, cronyism, appropriation of state resoures for wealthy patrons, military tribunals, suspension of basic rights, disappearances, extraordinary rendition, indefinite detention, unwise military adventures, lack of curiousity or shame, and general disdain for regular people and democracy. Good thing, we're a democratic republic and we rose up and put an end to all that. Sigh.
ReplyDeleteRegarding the tank thing. A bunch of soft bodies aren't going to stop a tank. If the tank crew really wanted to, they'd just run right through the crowd like Eric Cartmen at a hippy festival. They didn't do it because they aren't monsters.
ReplyDeleteDisagree. This would be true if you're in Tiannamen Square, bearing down at full speed on the pedestrians, but the Egyptian Army's tanks start off from a stationary position at the end of the squares where they've been placed, and while some tanks have a surprisingly good top speed, their 0-60 acceleration is beyond crap (particularly if they can't go in a straight line because they're in a city without boulevards). Because of the conditions for which tanks are designed (summary, as Ajay notes above "anywhere but cities"), they're not very well protected against attackers who are swarming over them. My guess would be that the tank crew would have a fair chance of being dragged out and lynched as soon as they turned the engine over, and a significantly higher chance of being cooked alive after killing a few civilians.
ReplyDeleteNot to be sentimental, and not to disagree with the "We'll be torn limb from limb" theory of large-crowd appraisal, but presumably another factor in armies failing to fire on vast city crowds like this is that a large number of the infantry are thinking "how do i know little cousin archie isn't somewhere in this lot?"
ReplyDeleteRebellions are where the foot-soldiers sent to quell the unrest join it, and turn on their officers. And revolutions are where the officers join both, and lynch the generals.
I'd think this would be more of a case for attack helicopters or fighter-bombers to wipe up the demonstrators with tanks/machine gun units just used to keep people cordoned in.
ReplyDeleteThey're a reactionary guard just waiting for the right dictator to come along so they can start punching some hippies and telling young whippersnappers what's what.
ReplyDeleteNah, they're a bunch of soft petit-bourgeoise. Dry cleaners, small town lawyers and small business men. All talk.
Worth noting that the Egyptian army is conscripted. A lot of them probably would rather be in the crowd. Push them hard enough, and they might just. That was probably a factor in the calculation.
ReplyDeleteAnother point. One reason the regime has stayed in power was because people feared it. That's gone now. I wouldn't offer great odds for a transition to a Turkish style democracy (about the best you can hope for I think), but the army is going to find it a lot hard to crack down in six months. On the other hand the upper middle classes don't like Mubarak, but they're probably not so wild about redistribution either. So there's that.
Another corollary - I am less worried than many about the pro-Mubarrak militia that has turned out. They seem to only be on the ground in Cairo and outnumbered even there. If my theory is right, they'll stand down very soon - if these people were ever up for a fight on anyone remotely near their own size, why are they out on the streets supporting a dictator in the first place?
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure I could have written a better description of the characteristics of our beloved Tea Party Patriots.
ReplyDeleteWhile I'm sympathetic to Cian's point, I wouldn't want to give Sarah Palin any more ideas.
(That Lewis piece will, I'm guessing, be start of the show at CT soon enough, taree, taray. The trip to Achill at the end reminded me of when I was there in an April or May a good while back, and it was fucking freezing.)
I worry if any authoritarian regime will hit upon the idea of defunding higher education in order to increase the potential supply of arseholes.
ReplyDelete"significant advantages to urban defenders not available to the communards, who were stuck in a city designed to make insurgency impossible while armed with muzzle-loading rifles"
ReplyDeleteIs this actually correct?
My understanding was that the changes I assume you have in mind (the wide boulevards, tearing down windy alleys etc, specifically to prevent easy revolution) were the work of Napoleon III in the 1850s, ie post-Commune (inspired by it, but not influencing it).
1870s surely? Haussmann and all. (One reason I have no sympathy for James Nicoll's line about Le Corbusier's plans for Paris being something you'd impose on a conquered city; no, that's what Le Corbusier proposed to replace & what a great deal of people now swoon romantically* over.)
ReplyDelete* the precise and exact irony that the boulevards of Paris are deeply and intrinsically anti-Romantic is important.
"Are satnavs one of those bits of technology that the US inexplicably is about five years behind the rest of the world in adopting, like mobile phones?"
ReplyDeleteI'm unsure exactly what this is supposed to mean. You are aware, are you not, that every American of more than modest means has a phone (iPhone or Android) which has pretty damn good mapping ability on it --- and is
(a) a whole lot more convenient than ye standard car GPS type device
(b) works (more or less acceptably well) wherever you go in the world, without complains that your US map pack is useless in Thailand?
(c) designed in an America that (regardless of how it may be "five years behind the rest of the world in phones" apparently was the only country on earth capable of designing a phone that people actually love --- again iPhone, Android, and maybe even one day Win Phone.
(Yeah yeah yeah, Nokia ships three trillion phones a day --- and they have to sell them at such dirt cheap rates, because no-one buys them unless they can afford nothing better --- that Nokia's profit is a tiny share of Apple's profit. Likewise for Japan --- the country that "hates iPhones" according to Wired in 2009, has iPhone as 72% of their smartphone sales these days.)
My point is simply that Daniel's site deserves better than cliches, and cliches about the US phone market are especially irritating given how obviously ludicrous they are. There are plenty of serious things to complain about in the US phone market without spouting nonsense.
"1870s surely? Haussmann and all. "
ReplyDeleteWikipedia (which obviously has to be correct) dates the major changes as between 1852 and 1870), so we're both sort of correct.
Blah I obviously am wrong. I meant Second Empire, which finishes 1871. But that means of course pre-commune, which is 1871.
ReplyDeleteevery American of more than modest means has a phone (iPhone or Android) which has pretty damn good mapping ability on it
ReplyDeleteBullshit. "Feature phones" still dominate the US market, and 24-month contracts with high early termination fees slow smartphone uptake. (Stick up your arse? There's an app for that.)
designed in an America that (regardless of how it may be "five years behind the rest of the world in phones" apparently was the only country on earth capable of designing a phone that people actually love --- again iPhone, Android, and maybe even one day Win Phone.
ReplyDeleteBullshit. People love iPhones; that's Apple Exceptionalism not American Exceptionalism.
(and of course, in the world outside the US where we have both consumer protection and a sensible network standard, you can have an iPhone and run it on whatever network you like, in a way that works; in the US until later this year, you have to run it on a substandard network that doesn't work very well at all).
Nobody has ever loved an Android phone, and nobody has ever held any emotion towards a Windows Phone other than frustration and loathing. To the extent that Android phones are usable at all, that's down to the work done by Samsung to make the Galaxy range work for consumers (compare with the original Google/HTC ones, which were almost as bad as WinPhones).
Also, the 72% Japan iPhone figure set off my "utterly spurious bullshit that no thinking person could possibly believe" detector, and was right to do so. It has 5% share of the Japanese phone market, and the proportion of Japanese phones that are smartphones is close enough to 100% that the 5% figure will be about right. The market definition under which the iPhone has 72% share is something which is best translated as "smartphones that aren't Japanese" - the link elaborates.
(BTW, my current phone is a Nokia N97 mini - I bought it because it was the same price and spec as the iPhone but had a keyboard rather than an evil and unpleasant touch-screeny typo generator)
(the iPhone - an all American product designed by an Englishman (Jonathan Ive), assembled in China by Foxconn, from parts including a CPU designed in Britain by ARM and fabbed in Taiwan, depending on model a radio baseband chip designed and fabbed in Germany by Infineon or designed in the US by Qualcomm and fabbed by their subcontractors in Taiwan, a Bluetooth/WLAN radio designed by Cambridge Silicon Radio in Britain and fabbed God knows where, a touch screen originally produced by Balda AG in Hannover but now by Samsung in South Korea...I forget where the batteries come from but the Flash NAND storage is Toshiba, from Japan IIRC)
ReplyDeleteI guess it is an iconically American product - it's imported!
I'm unsure exactly what this is supposed to mean.
ReplyDeleteWhat it means is that the US was several years behind Europe in widespread adoption of mobile phones; the period in question being the late 1990s and early 2000s. For example: US coverage of the 2000 elections demonstrated Al Gore's general tech-friendliness by pointing out that he never went anywhere without his pager. European observers had to go away and ask their parents what a "pager" was and why anyone would use one when they could just use a phone?
John B and Alex are far better placed to go into details on this than I am, but you should look up things like "GSM" and "CDMA" if you want to know more.
You are aware, are you not, that every American of more than modest means has a phone (iPhone or Android) which has pretty damn good mapping ability on it
21% of US mobile subscribers have smartphones. That seems fair enough if you assume that "less than modest means" covers 79% of the population.
AFAICT, the Egyptian establishment had the sense to use an out-of-town division when they sent the tanks in, but that doesn't seem to have worked out quite as planned.
ReplyDeleteThe Commune/Hausmann timeline (per my understanding.)
1848 - (A topic about which I know disgracefully little) - Paris revolutionaries manage to build barricades in the ratwarren of streets and hold off the army.
1851- Enter Napoleon III.
1852-1870 To stop 1848 happening again, Hausmann knocks down said ratwarren.
1870/1 - first Napoleon III, then the Commune, get a nasty shock.
Nokia's profit is a tiny share of Apple's profit.
ReplyDeleteIn the words of Charles Babbage, "I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a statement". You do know, right, that Apple makes things other than phones?
I worry if any authoritarian regime will hit upon the idea of defunding higher education in order to increase the potential supply of arseholes.
ReplyDeletePart of me believes that the Coalition is a horrible dream that we're all going to wake up from soon (certainly before 2015). Part of me believes we're seriously screwed on a long-term basis (certainly beyond 2015). So thanks for that thought.
The article is interesting, but you're still thinking like a normal human being rather than someone who views other humans as chess pieces. IOW, you are not yet suited to be a tyrant.
ReplyDeleteRegardless of the figurehead, Egypt has been under the control of the military for 60 years.
Mubarek wanted to pass control to his son Gamal, who is not military or ex-military, and therefore not trusted by the inner circle. Like an aging Mafia chieftain, Mubarek has outlived his usefulness in their eyes.
They see an opportunity to get rid of both Hosni and Gamal, while letting the mob do their dirty work for them. While they may superficially follow Mubarek's orders and take their posts, they have no interest in actually acting.
Once Mubarek has actually abdicated, watch how long it takes for the military to "restore order".
European observers had to go away and ask their parents what a "pager" was and why anyone would use one when they could just use a phone?
ReplyDeletethe lyrics of Beyonce's "Crazy In Love" include "Got me hoping you'll page me right now". And this was in 2003! To the European dance floor audience she might as well have been asking for a pigeon-delivered billetdoux written on vellum with a quill.
Americans do have satnav though - they have it on the advertising screens in the back of taxis in New York, so Michael Lewis is surely aware. I don't know if it's "Military grade" though - it shows you where you are on a map, and I confess I am not quite sure what more our brave heroes in uniform might ask of a satnav.
A very cherishable bit comes on the same page as all the stuff about fairies, when it becomes screamingly obvious he's never heard of Father Ted (which, TBF, is not unreasonable for an American, but you'd have thought a fact-checker might have pointed it out.)
ReplyDeleteI don't know if it's "Military grade" though - it shows you where you are on a map, and I confess I am not quite sure what more our brave heroes in uniform might ask of a satnav.
ReplyDeleteActually, a lot of military grade satnav kit just gives you a grid reference, that you then have to match up against your (paper) map to find out where you are. There is some shinier stuff that will give you a rolling map display (or for that matter a rolling overhead photo display); this is generally vehicle mounted. Handheld map screens are still in the realms of fantastically advanced science fiction technology, or, as the military calls it, "the civilian world".
ReplyDelete1848 - (A topic about which I know disgracefully little) - Paris revolutionaries manage to build barricades in the ratwarren of streets and hold off the army.
And 1830, and 1873. I seem to remember reading somewhere that the barricade never actually saw a great deal of use as a military emplacement. Generally, the army didn't bother fighting in the streets of Paris once the barricades were up -- it was too late by then.
TBF, the same's the true of most military fortification - very few have been attacked, or even laid under siege - it's the symbolism that's important (cf the Edwardian castles in Wales.)
ReplyDeleteAll bets are off on "the military" as a workable or predictable unity if social antagonism reaches critical mass. Strikes me that most current prophecies about where Egypt is going to end up assume all kinds of social continuities from recent past to actual present that aren't necessarily there, re demographics, mass literacy, economic substructure, the relative positioning of all the many mutually antagonistic petty bourgeois tranches blah blah blah. Too much of the explanatory gubbins is no more coherent than "ancient tribal hatreds"...
ReplyDeleteAnd how is this different from the republican party in the US and the teabaggers? Seems like the strategy of using arseholes is not limited to just dictators.
ReplyDeleteMy satnav gives me directions on a the windscreen. Pretty sure the Jesus Phone couldn't manage that. Prob not mil spec though.
ReplyDeleteThe iPhone's for people who don't text blind, surely? Given a choice between a blackberry and an equivalently priced Blackberry, ever teenager will take the latter. QWERTY keyboard that you can use up your sleeve while pretending to pay attention to a teacher drone on. I mean come on. I've seen teenagers text and skateboard - show me the iPhone you can do that with.
It is true that the berry seems to be more popular with the kids than the iPhone, which I am afraid is more for middle aged twats like me. Although the Blackberry is if anything more all-American than the iPhone.
ReplyDeleteCanadian!
ReplyDeleteI have to admit, as a man who, for tiresome reasons, has to carry round two Blackberries, they're very good for email, and have a decent battery life. The rest of the phone is crap, especially the way they changed the charger socket between the two versions.
@Greg democratic republics like the US don't need arseholes to stay in power though. Deploying them in support of an ideology is quite different then deploying them to support the government (which the tea party certainly doesn't...).
ReplyDeleteIf the "it can't happen here" ever did happen here, certainly the tea party and their ideological descendants would be the backbone of any US fascism.
"To the European dance floor audience she might as well have been asking for a pigeon-delivered billetdoux written on vellum with a quill."
ReplyDeleteOh, if only.
"Part of me believes we're seriously screwed on a long-term basis (certainly beyond 2015)."
Can you spare any of the parts that don't believe this, Phil? Because I'm over here in the States, and I've run out.
My satnav gives me directions on a the windscreen. Pretty sure the Jesus Phone couldn't manage that.
ReplyDeleteThe main difference, of course, is that your iPhone needs, in order to work as a satnav, a data connection to get the map _and_ a GPS lock to get the coordinates. All your TomTom needs is a GPS lock. The map's already inside.
Now, you can get a GPS lock almost everywhere (exceptions: highly mountainous terrain, dense urban terrain, underground, inside large ferroconcrete structures, dense jungle). You can't, however, get a data signal everywhere. That's the edge that a satnav gives you.
Or a Nokia phone, which lets you download the maps beforehand to use offline. Of course the US doesn't have those either (i.e. don't actually buy them).
ReplyDeleteThere are, to be fair, both a Tom Tom and several OS-based mapping apps available for the iPhone. I've used the latter on the odd hike.
ReplyDeleteBlackberries also rock at SMS and IM according to my colleague's teenage informants. Touch screens are met with a contemptuous shrug. Not sure how good they are at Facebook, I'll have to ask. Also email's dead (teenagers don't see the point of it), and twitter is for old farts.
ReplyDeleteThere's a huge generational divide there, with I guess lagging effects in the US where its a fairly recent phenomenon.
If the "it can't happen here" ever did happen here, certainly the tea party and their ideological descendants would be the backbone of any US fascism.
ReplyDeleteBackbone perhaps, but not the street fighters require to make it happen that way. Also, the Tea party is actually a very small phenomenon. You only have to compare them to the actually organised Latinos (street protests in the 100,000s yo) to see this.
Ajay says: "The main difference, of course, is that your iPhone needs, in order to work as a satnav, a data connection to get the map _and_ a GPS lock to get the coordinates."
ReplyDeletePlease stop making shit up, thank you.
At the risk of having to spell it out: no, neither Tomtom nor Magellan nor Navigon are complete morons, and yes, their iOS satnav applications come pre-bundled with the entire map database and can operate just duckily without a data connection. A number of smaller operators offer much cheaper nav apps which stream maps over the data connection on-demand, but buying them is, strangley, not mandatory.
(As to the assertion that RIM is leading iOS, Android or even Symbian among the 16-19-year-old set: numbers, please.)
I didn't say it was leading, I said it was the phone they wanted according to her informants. It apparently has a very good IM app and a good keyboard. Any expensive phone is going to largely be aspirational among that set. But any phone with QWERTY is preferred. Touch screen is a non-starter. She had some really good quotes on that too.
ReplyDeleteThis was in Europe. All I have on the US is anecdotal. Both my teenage nieces want a RIM phone, and one has got one (no QWERTY though).
"If you open the hatches, you are no longer in a heavily armoured and invulnerable battle vehicle - you are a bloke sitting on top of a van."
ReplyDeleteNo, you're a bloke sitting on top of a very very heavy bullet proof van which has several machine guns attached to it.
It is leading though - Blackberries are the top selling phone in Britain, basically entirely due to the popularity of BBM among the younger set.
ReplyDeletebtw, Jamie's blog is all about Egypt at the moment, while we are all arguing about who's got the best phone. The answer to that question is "Alex has", btw.
Agree with a lot of the gist of this post in terms of the value of assholes when you want some dirty work done but don't want your fingerprints on it, but disagree that the military does not have the ability to deal with crowds like these, given sufficient ruthless intent.
ReplyDeleteTanks & APCs are not very vulnerable at all to unarmed or lightly-armed attackers, link notwithstanding. This isn't Iraq or Grozny and the protesters don't have RPGs. The tanks are there in sufficient numbers (from what I have seen) to support each other with anti-infantry machinegun fire and have been heavily reinforced since the first couple of days.
Both the M60 and M1 tanks have coaxial machineguns mounted next to the main gun that can be used with the tank completely buttoned down, and I do not believe there is a crowd anywhere in the world that won't run and hide while the people in front of them are being killed by machinegun rounds. Machine-gunning people is a very effective crowd-control measure.
As for running people over from a standing stop, no problem at all. Engines that move 50 ton tanks up 30 degree slopes are not going to be impeded by human flesh.
Even without tanks, small groups of trained soldiers with assault rifles and support machineguns are quite capable of murdering thousands of unarmed people in short order. And resupply and reinforcement are things soldiers are quite good at.
What's holding them back in Egypt is not fear of ineffectiveness but fear of very bad PR (and maybe self-restraint on the part of the army). Which is why the current attempts to get all news media out are so worrying.
Pagers do still have the advantage of working on the Tube, but that's valuable to the kind of people -- computer sysadmins, for example -- who Beyonce wouldn't really be singing about. Unless her website was down.
ReplyDeleteAlthough the Blackberry is if anything more all-American than the iPhone.
Like Michael J. Fox.
I've never seriously believed in the existence of Canada (this dates back to a Sunday School experience when a well-meaning vicar said "what do you mean, no evidence for believing in God? You've never seen Canada, but you believe in that, don't you?"). For a short while I believed JK Galbraith was Canadian, but then I found out he was US Ambassador to India.
ReplyDeleteJacob, pj: Nicolae Ceausescu also fell into this seemingly logical but actually deeply dangerous way of thinking. It is all well and good to send the tanks in, but what if the population don't run away? Answer is, you're kind of fucked. A tank with a machine gun can clear the streets, but it can't keep them clear, and it's only going to have a few thousand rounds of ammunition; maybe ten minutes of machine gunning, after which you are now in a state of civil war and you have to seriously worry about something nasty coming in through the air intakes.
ReplyDeleteTanks versus unarmed but unintimdated demonstrators in numbers got played out in Timisoara. The tank crews didn't get massacred, but they didn't carry the day. And that was a protest roughly a tenth the size of the one in Cairo. Numbers really do matter.
This was in Europe. All I have on the US is anecdotal.
ReplyDeleteIn Canada, RIM and Apple have basically got the entire hip end of the phone market stitched up between the two, mainly because Blackberry plans seem to be priced cheaper in-country somehow or other. If you go to the campus of one of the wealthier universities in Ontario, you will literally see nothing but iPhones and Blackberries.
Android hasn't got anything close to an even chance in Canada, although it is doing fine in the U.S. I think Blackberry basically got the the cheaper-than-iPhone market stitched up solid, especially with the ridiculous amount of marketing of the new Blackberry by the Canadian carriers.
For some reason, the teen-youth market in the U.S. hasn't caught the Blackberry fever yet, at least not comprehensively. It's one of those things where not having reached a critical mass with BBM, it isn't dominant, but once it reaches a critical mass there will be basically no alternative to getting a Blackberry or not having BBM (because lots of people get BBM with no texting plan, so BBM is all they use). Right now it's still haphazard, with the top end being iPhone. No doubt as with other fashions, in a year's time the U.S. will join the Euro-Canadian trend.
Although the really weird parallel to the dominance of Blackberry in the teen market is the dominance of Macbooks in the U.S. and Canadian collegiate market. The dominance in that market is complete and total, so much so that everyone is using iChat to a degree where not having it can be a (at the moment, trivial) inconvenience.
ReplyDeleteAt university you can generally pick out the misfits (those who are not computer geeks, that is) by the fact they aren't using Macbooks.
On the OP, aren't arseholes as a strategic resource as old as Fascism itself? I mean, what is "menefreghismo" but the Italian word for "arseholedom"?
ReplyDeleteThis isn't Iraq or Grozny and the protesters don't have RPGs.
ReplyDeleteWrong, it seems.
http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/world/rpg-fired-at-egyptian-police-station/story-e6frfkui-1225995907257
Tanks & APCs are not very vulnerable at all to unarmed or lightly-armed attackers
I defy you to find an actual tank commander who thinks that stationary tanks, buttoned up, unsupported by infantry, can dominate an urban battlespace using only their coax guns. See remarks above about situational awareness. Being buttoned up is all very well but it does mean you won't be able to spot the local lads as they creep to the second-floor windows, Molotovs in hand. And those M1s have got gas turbine engines. Great big air intakes.
And those M1s have got gas turbine engines. Great big air intakes.
ReplyDeleteThis makes me wonder how many of Egypt's M1's are actually functional. Aren't the M1's engines hard to maintain? (Or was I misinformed.)
Saudi Arabia is another big user. The Saudis must have an amazing maintenance team to keep the tanks in tiptop shape (sarcasm alert).
They're complicated, but designed to be very easy to replace - it's pretty much a matter of taking out the old turbine and slotting in a new one (which when we're talking about something weighing several tonnes is easier said than done), but it's not like some of the Soviet tanks, whose principal design priority was to squeeze as much as possible into a very small space, which apparently makes them a fucker to fix.
ReplyDelete(The result of the first Gulf War became a lot more comprehensible when I saw the inside of a T-72 turret. A sealed-up metal box whose sole ventilation is a small plastic fan by the gunner's knee? In the desert?)
That's presumably what the US aid buys you - hot and cold running parts and General Dynamics field service engineers.
ReplyDeletecf Israel discreetly supplying Iran with spare tank engines and parts in the 80s, Iran having a legacy US tank fleet.
ReplyDeleteThat's presumably what the US aid buys you - hot and cold running parts and General Dynamics field service engineers.
ReplyDeleteI remember watching the CNN reporter doing a continuous report on an U.S. armoured division (or something) rolling through the Iraqi desert. Progress had to constantly stop due to issues with a) the LAV's and b) the M1 tanks. The IFV's were fine. I was just flabbergasted at how much of a fiction their mobility was.
(Might have been just the LAV's. I dunno.)
That's presumably what the US aid buys you - hot and cold running parts and General Dynamics field service engineers.
ReplyDeleteI do remember reading somewhere that this is indeed what the US aid goes on. I've seen it described as a subsidy to US military industrial complex - which would certainly fit the aid model generally. Dunno how true it is though.
Every iPhone sold in the US increases the size of their trade deficit. It adds 2 billion to the deficit - a number I choose to believe cos I'm too lazy to check it. But the the future's in design and know how apparently - Tom Friedman said so.
The best phone I ever had was a Nokia from the early 000s. It could make phone calls, text in a second, was tiny and had a battery life that was practically a week. Not sure what else you could want from a phone really.
The desert's a fucker for reliability though. Pretty much the worst terrain, especially when you consider that these things were designed for W. Europe.
ReplyDeleteA mechanic once told me that the Apache is pretty much a 1:1 deal. For every one flying, you need a second for spare parts. Actually it might have been 2:1 that he said, but that sounded too unlikely
Every iPhone sold in the US increases the size of their trade deficit. It adds 2 billion to the deficit - a number I choose to believe cos I'm too lazy to check it.
ReplyDeleteI think you better take a look at this article, which explains the iPhone deficit:
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2010/12/iphones-trade-deficit-problem
Basically, it's just pure accounting. As China's value-added for the iPhone is a small fraction of the total value, but the entire iPhone gets counted as Chinese exports, the numbers don't match up when you realize that it's still Americans who's raking in the cash.
This is probably more of an argument for changing the way trade numbers are calculated more than anything else.
It's an accounting effect, but it's correct accounting; Apple takes its cash into America either through design royalties (which appear as an export of services) or through profits (which appear on the capital account). The components appear as exports from whereever they are made, and imports to China. If you did the numbers any other way, you would have a set of current accounts that didn't balance.
ReplyDeleteImports of intermediate goods and exports of finished goods are not exactly a new problem for systems of national accounts and the WSJ is being really hacky in suggesting either that there is some new problem here because hey globalisation!, or that it isn't fundamentally true that the iPhone is an imported good which adds to the US trade deficit.
or that it isn't fundamentally true that the iPhone is an imported good which adds to the US trade deficit.
ReplyDeleteI think the basic gist of the argument is that because the trade deficit doesn't reflect "reality-on-the-ground," which is that no one really thinks of iPhones as Chinese exports (the natural way to think about it is as an U.S. product with the actual manufacturing bits contracted out to the Chinese) and no one puts iPhones in the "bad for U.S. economy" mental category associated with trade deficits in the popular imagination, we might as well either a) ignore trade deficits altogether or b) find a way to calculate trade deficits that don't count iPhones as Chinese exports.
I meant to say "b) find a way to calculate trade deficits that doesn't have the iPhone increasing the trade deficit."
ReplyDeleteThat's what they say, anyhow.
Which leaves the question as to why there's an iPhone deficit at all. Because if you wanted to calculate the actual total impact of iPhone on trade, you substract (I think?) the deficit from the surplus from the design royalty, and whatever number you actually end up with is the "actual" deficit/surplus.
The whole thing is just really confusing.
Not really. The import of the hardware adds to the trade deficit, the export of the services, software, and intellectual property component of it reduces the overall current-account deficit, of which the trade deficit is a subset. It's just split over two line-items.
ReplyDeleteFor a crude analysis you could consider it as a PC with a fancy case designed in the US, running an operating system developed there, assembled from proprietary parts. The hardware is an import, the look-and-feel and the software is a domestic product.
How is all of this discussion on trade deficits affected by the fact that the two main priorities for structuring any Chinese - outside world transaction in a group are:-
ReplyDeletea) Once cash comes into China, it's a bugger of a job to get it out without getting clobbered on WHT, corporate law, general central bank officiousness, etc.[1], and
b)Chinese indirect taxes are a pain in the arse.
Because if you wanted to calculate the actual total impact of iPhone on trade, you substract (I think?) the deficit from the surplus from the design royalty, and whatever number you actually end up with is the "actual" deficit/surplus
ReplyDeletethis is what the SONA actually does. The problem is that people want to count the iPhone as a US product because of Apple when it actually isn't - the components which are assembled in China are apparently manufactured in Japan and Germany for the most part. The profits go to Apple, but GDP measures transactions, not profits.
Good grief: you've all made an enormously long tank / iPhone thread. Make mine an IPA.
ReplyDeleteThe iPhone is obviously better than the other phones, btw.
"Tanks versus unarmed but unintimdated demonstrators..."
ReplyDeleteNo true Scotsman...
I don't really know how the tank thing would play out, but I suspect that the people outside the tank would have a much better chance if ready with cans of petrol, etc.
ReplyDeleteI also suspect the most interesting part is what happens after a few belts of 7.62 mm have been run through the co-axial machinegun (and the streets have been temporarily cleared). As Daniel says, you're then in a state of civil war. I liked Wikipedia's page on the Romanian revolution: I'd never taken the time to look into it before now. I suppose I thought that the Ceausescus just woke up one morning to find themselves under arrest because everyone else had switched sides overnight.
In America, we call our arseholes the Tea Party.
ReplyDeleteI think it's a bit different pushing into a hostile town and the situation the Egyptian Army is in, where they are operating in their own capital city and have pretty much complete control of the streets outside of the square itself. And the square is enormous and open, easy to get far away from any buildings, with open approaches for reinforcements... I just don't think they would have any trouble creating a bloodbath there if they wanted to.
ReplyDeleteYes, after that you are somewhat in a state of civil war, but starting from a point where the army already has total control of the streets... well I just wouldn't rate the chances of the unarmed protesters very highly.
And anyway, they're not unsupported by infantry. There are a ton of Egyptian Army soldiers in the area, and with control of the streets bringing in lots of reinforcements and resupply would be easy.
That all depends on the soldiers being willing to create a bloodbath, which they don't seem to be, thankfully.
The obvious example of a successful use of military force to clear large numbers of protesters is Tiananmen. There, despite some setbacks, the military had no real difficulty in using armor and infantry willing to fire on civilians to clear a large protest. Molotov cocktails were used, but did not have a significant effect against hundreds of armored vehicles. A lot of people were killed, but nowhere near the entire crowd - most people run away when being shot at.
That's not to say that any tanker is going to be enthusiastic to fight people armed with petrol bombs on city streets. They'd prefer, oh, let's say one unarmed guy ... standing still 1,000 feet away ... in the middle of a perfectly flat desert basin ... at midday. But I don't think they'd be shitting bricks at the prospect of gunning down a few kids in a nice big open space in the middle of a city controlled by their own army.
As someone said, the asshole squads are essential but it's because of their deniability, allowing the regime to cause mayhem that builds support for heavy-handed measures to "restore order" without obviously being responsible for it.
Midan Tahrir doesn't really have open approaches. You can come across the bridge (but that can be blocked) but the streets leading into the square, especially to the south in Garden City, are pretty narrow and built up. Protesters could block them with debris and drop molotov cocktails down on the impeded tanks.
ReplyDeleteOf course, you could send infantry in to clear out the buildings, but that just means that you can't keep an urban space secure just with tanks, as several people have said. And if you're fighting house to house to seize Midan Simon Bolivar, say, than you really are in a civil war.
I'm surprised, actually, that the protesters don't have more serious weapons. Lots of them are ex-conscripts, of course, and guns aren't all that uncommon down in Upper Egypt.
The obvious example of a successful use of military force to clear large numbers of protesters is Tiananmen.
ReplyDeleteSo we have Tiananmen on the one hand, and Timisoara on the other. In both cases, bullets were fired and streets were cleared. In the second case, the crowds came back out, and they also came out in Bucharest, and after that the defense minister said he wouldn't go along with plan A any more.
I imagine that the size and connectedness of a country might have something to do with how things go: a revolution that looks local will look squashable. I imagine that you'd also want a tightly knit leadership before going for the bloodbath option. I'm not sure that Egypt has either a local revolution or a tight leadership.
At the moment, I'm wondering what happens if the Egyptian leadership just waits. Do the crowds eventually just get tired and bored?
"Good grief: you've all made an enormously long tank / iPhone thread."
ReplyDeleteNext up, the iTank.
Nabakov wins.
ReplyDeleteNext up, the iTank.
ReplyDeleteWill it be designed by Danes and wrapped in maple panelling?
Having a big country is very useful in suppressing rebellions/protests like Tiananmen in China, since one can bring in troops/arseholes from parts far away with no local ties. Then military discipline takes over and ruthlessness is easy. In a smaller country like Egypt, probably not so much because the army probably has local ties.
ReplyDeleteThe bringing in of troops from distant parts is a time tested and empirically validated strategy, as for example, the Imperial british use of Indian troops in Burma, and Africa as well as the use of Gurkha and other ethnic or demographically distinct regiments to suppress local rebellions and unrest in different parts of India.
-A different Anonymous (or ADA).