Thursday music link
How different would the history of ideas be if the story of "The Emperor's New Clothes" had made it into Plato instead of that incomprehensible bollocks about a cave? It's actually an extremely sophisticated story - the version we tell to kids is just a fable about the value of bloody-mindedness and the fact that adults are often really dishonest, but in a more grown-up version, the adults in the story wouldn't be pretending to see the clothes out of social intimidation, they'd genuinely believe that the clothes were there, in defiance of the evidence of their own eyes. Because that's what the world's like - from the real estate bubble to the fact that Irish priests were abusing children, the world's full of things that everyone has basically known all along, but didn't really know that they knew. Zizek calls them the "unknown knowns", by analogy with "known unknowns", but Hans Christian Andersen got there first.
Hypocrite. Lush were a massively underrated band I think, and terribly unlucky in their historical timing, given that they came out of the fanzine scene in more or less its last generation before the invention of blogs. I'd love to see what Crispin Wright would make of the line "I know you think it's wrong, and maybe you're right but this is my song".
Bonus ball - the indie version of "I will survive", for all my ladies out there. Smooth. This was me in the 90s. Update, in response to email abuse - this was not me in the 90s. I have no ladies out there. I have never been smooth. Are you happy now?
You've read China Mieville's The City and The City, right? It's basically all about this--unknown knowns.
ReplyDeleteI haven't actually - I'll see if Waterstones have got a copy hidden among the vampire sex books this lunchtime. The Douglas Adams "Dirk Gently" books featured a character who achieved a form of invisibility by simply being such that whenever you saw him you got a powerful urge to think about something else, iirc.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand if the cinema had been invented before Plato wrote the Republic, noone would have found his bollocks about the cave remotely incomprehensible.
ReplyDeleteTrue, but if cinema had been invented, I doubt anyone would have thought that there was a massive philosophical puzzle raised by the fact that the pictures on the screen weren't the real things.
ReplyDeleteI wasn't too impressed by the City and the City's world-building, TBH. The central conceit is clever, but the amount of epicycles the author has to bolt on by the end to get it working in an even half-way plausible way annoyed me more and more as it went on.
ReplyDeleteHypocrite is, yes, a superb song (with a killer bass intro), but, IIRC, didn't they release it on the same day as another single that was, to be charitable, bobbins?
One of the Hitchhikers' books also has the "someone else's problem field", which enables a large spaceship to be invisible on a cricket field by virtue of being painted pink.
ReplyDeleteah yes, that's it, not Dirk Gently at all!
ReplyDeleteIIRC, didn't they release it on the same day as another single that was, to be charitable, bobbins?
"Desire Lines". It's actually quite nice in a sort of ethereal, 4ADey kind of way but a very curious choice for a single release.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/apple-claims-new-iphone-only-visible-to-most-loyal,2772/
ReplyDeleteWasn't it more that they were too late for shoegazing, and not quite right for Britpop?
ReplyDeleteWasn't it more that they were too late for shoegazing, and not quite right for Britpop?
ReplyDeleteThere's an interestingly wider topic there - bands that unjustly flopped because they came to a movement too late.
that too.
ReplyDeleteI'm at least a year overdue on an essay for the boston review on the City and the City which makes more or less this argument. Guilt. Didn't think that the detective story itself was very good, but the setup was excellent. And from correspondence with the author, I can say that part of the unbelievability is intended - the effect is _precisely_ an Emperor's New Clothes one (nobody really keeps to the rules of not seeing what they are supposed not to see, but nobody is quite prepared to admit it, making it an unknown known).
ReplyDeleteAnd didn't Lush do quite well in their time? Not quite up there with the big boys, but not down in the obscurity with Slowdive etc.
And from correspondence with the author, I can say that part of the unbelievability is intended - the effect is _precisely_ an Emperor's New Clothes one (nobody really keeps to the rules of not seeing what they are supposed not to see, but nobody is quite prepared to admit it, making it an unknown known).
ReplyDeleteI can see that was the intent, but the way it's executed seems a bit heavyhanded, particularly towards the end. And I did love some bits of it - the way that the two contradictory stereotypical visions of Eastern Europe (grim grey potato-eaters and lazy quasi-Turkish prone to picturesque dictatorships) were played out by use of the central idea, and in particular, the scene in which the phenonomen of how expat communities from the other city were distinguishable from genuine bits of the other city.
Isn't there a Jack Vance story with the same premise -- two populations living in the same city, culturally unable to see each other? I think it's Vance, and I remember them wearing different colors.
ReplyDeleteThat rang a bell, and it seems to be one of the Dying Earth stories.
ReplyDeleteAmpridatvir: Ampridatvir is, like Kaiin, an ancient city whose people now dwell in its half-ruins. Although many of the buildings are crumbling, much of its ancient technology is still usable, such as moving walkways and anti-gravity elevators. The city was once a highly advanced civilization where all needs were met by technology and magic, ruled by the wizard Rogol Domedonfors. However, the city fell into decline because of the bickering between two cults, the worshippers of the god Pansiu and the worshippers of the god Cazdal. Before dying, Rogol created two tablets which, when combined, would provide the secrets of his power. He gave one tablet to the leader of each sect.
The people of Ampridatvir now live under a curse. The worshippers of Pansiu wear green, and cannot see any person wearing grey, while the worshippers of Cazdal wear grey, and cannot see anyone wearing green. As a result, the two sides are completely unaware of one another's existence. In accordance with tradition, glory-seekers dress themselves in red and attempt to retrieve the tablet of the opposing side. Little do they realize that this will make them visible to everyone, and doom them to being killed by invisible attackers. The people rationalize this by assuming that the red-wearers are killed by ghosts.
(From Wikipedia, obviously.)
Yes - and again I can reveal as a World D-Squared Digest exclusive that Mieville had not read the story before writing TCATC or he would have put in an explicit reference to it, promise (from the world-weary tone of the email, I'm guessing I was about the 500th person to point it out to him).
ReplyDeleteNot quite up there with the big boys, but not down in the obscurity with Slowdive etc.
ReplyDeleteyes, bigger than shoegaze, smaller than Britpop, but much more deserving of success than, say, Ocean Colour Scene. They had a riotous time on the Lollapalooza tour, by all accounts, although apparently the Red Hot Chili Peppers' attitudes to women were visible at an early stage.
Wasn't it more that they were too late for shoegazing, and not quite right for Britpop?
ReplyDeleteI think that's about right, along with the unfair implication that they were Camden Town hangers-on who had the excessive favour of the NME hacks, and thus suspect. (Compare and contrast: Elastica.)
On the other side of the coin, Lush were also just popular enough to be suspect among a certain strand of indiekid.
Elastica. Jesus. Annoying posh kid fronting them. Serious heroin habit. Songs stolen from Wire and the Stranglers. I mean WTF.
ReplyDeleteDaniel, were you stalking them?
This really is the indie version of "I Will Survive", of course. Or maybe it's not exactly indie?
ReplyDeleteLush were a massively underrated band I think
ReplyDeleteComparing with Elastica, the big difference is the content of fun. Lush were no fun at all.
False dichotomy! FACT: Elastica weren't fun either, barring the whole piss-taking the NME and MM used to engage in.
ReplyDeleteCounterpoint! They were both fun. Lush had a rather serious shoegazey past, but "Ladykillers" is hilarious.
ReplyDeleteCian: no, not really. I lived in Camden at the same time and occasionally saw them in the pubs around, but basically she was into the music and I was into the financial regulation and the two scenes were pretty separate (to a large extent, they still are).
to a large extent, they still are).
ReplyDeleteWith the obvious exception of the lead singer from Tallulah Gosh, who's now Chief Economist at the OFT. (Mentioned this before, I'm sure.)
oh yes of course! the interpenetration of twee and quantitative analysis is one for the next Michael Lewis book.
ReplyDeleteJustine Frischmann was my next door neighbour for a couple of years in the mid-2000s but we never discussed financial regulation I'm afraid. I'd imagine that was more Louise Wener's thing.
ReplyDeleteSpending a very dull morning at work checking up on the careers of 90s indie bands suggests that Des von Bladet's recent suggestion that classical music is a giant pyramid scheme actually also applies a lot to the more popular (sort of) end of the spectrum too.
ReplyDelete(Incidentally, is it reasonable to assume that most of the email abuse regarding ladies and smoothness has been from Mrs. D?)
You have to sell a lot of records to make a reasonable (i.e. median income, and thus less than what most of us here probably consider reasonable) income.
ReplyDeleteDaniel: I had several friends who were part of that scene so I had a nodding acquaintance with various Britpop people. I didn't like, or really know, their music. So it was mostly a little uncomfortable. Except for Menswear who were entertaining for all the wrong reasons...
I have been expecting Louise Wener to resurface as a Tory PPC on the Cameron A List for some time. On the day it happens, I will hate humanity.
ReplyDeleteA schoolfriend of mine spent 1997 as a super-fan/near-stalker attached to Kenickie (a considerable improvement over the guy who stole the lead singer in Reef's trainers).
Wener writes novels apparently. Its a slow day...
ReplyDeleteWas she the one who tried to be "controversial"? Who were the most irritating Britpop band - discuss with examples.
Shed Seven, possibly? Mainly for the cynical move of realising a song called 'Going for Gold' in the year of Euro 96 and the Atlanta Olympics. Also, in the sunlight-dappled pre-James Blunt days, having the most appropriate rhyme for the lead singer.
ReplyDeleteI think this Miki Berenyi interview (which is an absolute model of head-screwed-on good sense which many other stars of the era would have done well to emulate) pretty much says all that needs to be said:
ReplyDelete"Britpop? I remember Blur hated Oasis and Oasis hated Blur. And that Blur won the battle but Oasis won the war. But then later Oasis won the battle and Blur won the war. Several people embarrassed themselves by shaking hands with Tony Blair."
Was she the one who tried to be "controversial"?
ReplyDeleteThe USP was that she self-identified as a Conservative. In 1995. Oh, and wore a lot of short skirts.
I would say that Skunk Anansie were the most irritating band of the Britpop years, or at the very least the undisputed champs of the "Not Ocean Colour Scene" category.
ReplyDeleteSkunk Anansie were not very good, but they weren't really Britpop. More on the 'cock rock/metal' side of things, perhaps?
ReplyDeletehmmm, their lead singer was a woman so I am not sure that "cock rock" is appropriate, although it feels wrong to apply the term "cunt rock" to any band other than Limp Bizkit.
ReplyDeleteSkunk Anansie used to refer to themselves as Clit Pop, perhaps not realising that this was exactly equivalent to Cock Rock.
ReplyDeleteI'm actually more sympathetic to them than, say, Sleeper. However, calling a song Intellectualise My Blackness is teeth-furringly precious. Come to think of it, it reminds me of the sort of Tebbly Serious Problem people bring up on Unfogged threads on slow days.
Also, you've got to dig into the vast "I was in the pub with Simon Price/Taylor Parkes/whoever last night, he'll give us a leg up" category. As a Camdonian, it's surprising D^2 hasn't already surfaced this. ("Open main vents 2 and 4...planes up six...revolutions for ten knots. Blow all remaining credibility...SURFACE!")
ReplyDeleteI think I've said before that a significant contributing factor to the Maker's sticky end was the sheer quantity of column inches that went on so-and-so's mate's boyfriend's side project with clearly not a hope in hell of making it out of Camden or at least onto Camden High St.
I used to know people in early-to-mid 90s Glasgow who hung on every single word in Melody Maker, and could give you chapter and verse on the machinations within the Camden scene. Which was odd. I imagine it was some sort of domestic version of Japanese fandom.
ReplyDeleteThe people I knew in actual bands, with records and stuff, genuinely didn't give a shit about the music press; which the music press liked to paint as some sort of arch strategy, or pose, but the truth was, to the best of my knowledge they genuinely didn't care at all.
I'm not sure Taylor's been in a position to give anybody a leg up for more than a decade now. I may have mentioned (here, or elsewhere) that I know him - I've got a lot of time for him, although I wish he'd stop writing about pop music and write about other things, when to my mind he suddenly becomes several hundred times better as a writer, full of insight and possessed of clarity in both the linguistic and the intellectual sense.
ReplyDeleteDes von Bladet's recent suggestion that classical music is a giant pyramid scheme
Wot?
Ejh > http://piginawig.diaryland.com/
ReplyDeleteI thought of Lush at the time (by which I mean 95/96) as basically a pleasant but undistinguished shoegazing band who reinvented themselves cynically as a pretty bad Britpop band and in doing so achieved some mid-level chart success.
ReplyDeleteThis may not have been fair but a lot of extant indie bands were suddenly trying to write pop hits and get to #1 - cf. The Boo Radleys, Shed Seven - and the results were rarely pretty.
Hearing the names Taylor Parkes and Simon Price really takes me back - I used to read NME and MM pretty obsessively back in the day; now I've completely lost touch.
Other things I'd all but forgotten about: New Wave of New Wave; Romo. (The latter being an aborted creation of Simon Price if memory serves.)
Justin, this isn't bad:
ReplyDeletehttp://thequietus.com/articles/03925-the-fall-and-mark-e-smith-as-a-narrative-lyric-writer
At least NWoNW was vaguely real. Romo seemed to be largely an excuse for Simon Price to wear eyeliner. I think I bailed out when Simon Reynolds stopped writing for MM, but it did seem like they were discovering a new scene every week by the end. Meanwhile Electronic Music was at its zenith and they just kind of ignored.
Does Camden still have a scene? What do young persons listen to now on their walk-pods?
Deadline magazine had a thing for Lush I remember (read it for the comics).
ReplyDeleteI'm going to call it for Shed 7 if I can't have Ocean Color Scene. Though Sleeper were pretty bad... Also Gene...
Approximately everyone who makes a living from classical music makes their money from teaching aspirant musicians one or more levels down the hierarchy. That's a pyramid scheme.
ReplyDeleteAh, I see. Something similar is true (to a degree) about professional chess, although it's bit less pyramidal.
I really didn't like that Fall-lyrics piece at all. I kept shouting at it "Taylor, I can't see what you're trying to say!"
Well it needs editing, and the first ten paragraphs or so are terrible. But he's actually quite insightful about the lyrics.
ReplyDeleteDoes nobody else retain a profound loathing for Jesus Jones or the Farm, or were they too baggy to count?
ReplyDeleteAnyway: Kula Shaker, at a canter.
Simon Reynolds's _Blissed Out_ is probably the only book ever to have a reasonable claim to have Changed My Life, to say nothing of destroying my hearing.
Anyway: Kula Shaker, at a canter.
ReplyDeleteWe have a winner!
Well it needs editing, and the first ten paragraphs or so are terrible. But he's actually quite insightful about the lyrics.
ReplyDeleteYeah, that's kind of the problem. Insightful but unreadable. When people write about pop music they almost always write as if writing were easy - much as Mozart composed as if composing were easy. But they're not Mozart.
Writing is hard work - you have to do it over and again, change everything, think about everything, ask yourself if, just because you know what you mean, you've made that meaning clear to everybody else. All the time.
In a sense, it's practically all editing. But pop music writers write as if no such process were required, as if it just flowed from their fingers. As if it were 98% inspiration and no perspiration at all.
Much better
ReplyDeleteAlso from TP, one Rapidshare link you couldn't blame Mandelson for censoring.
ReplyDeleteAnyway: Kula Shaker, at a canter.
ReplyDeleteBut, what's that just coming up from the rear? Is it Powder? Why, yes it is. But, yes, it's still Kula Shaker by a nose.
oh yes of course! the interpenetration of twee and quantitative analysis is one for the next Michael Lewis book.
ReplyDeleteLong after the fall of the Camden dynasty, I saw Marine Research support Sleater-Kinney -- fantastic gig, tiny venue -- and Cathy 'Scrapheap Challenge' Rogers using an ironing board as a keyboard stand.
Re populations sharing cities: there's another one about a city inhabited by seven different cultures, each of which is only awake one day a week to save space. Then one of the members of the Monday culture manages to stay awake...
ReplyDelete