That Big School
Update: Check out the comments section for a really nasty nerdfight. The tipping point (ie, the first exchange to contain nothing at all about the actual subject) has been reached so I confidently expect it to get a lot more exciting. Careful readers will note that the cowardice, homosexuality or dishonesty of me and Dan Hardie does not actually imply anything about schools in Peterborough one way or the other.
I've decided to take the unpopular side of this question, again, this time simply because the blogospheric reaction to it has been a) so unanimous and b) based on a small number of media reports (the Times and BBC stories on May 6, plus a Cambridge Evening News one on May 8). This is soooo often a source of errors, because it is quite likely that the original story contains errors or stitch-ups (the Times is in my experience particularly bad for this; the Mail much worse and I am surprised that the Mail doesn't show up on Google news as the original source of this story) and they get magnified by Chinese whispers. I'm not claiming to be completely innocent of this, but it is actually a really bad intellectual habit to automatically gainsay new ideas, and an extremely bad habit to do so on the basis of newspaper summaries of them. It is often a useful prophylactic to this behaviour to preface some of your statements with the phrase "If we assume that this report in the Times is a complete and accurate representation of the situation then …" (another useful prophylactic is to check whether you agree with someone like Libby Purves).
It also strikes me as odd that there is so little local outrage at this proposal. The "superschool" plan has been around for at least a year (update: actually the plans have been available for view in Peterborough since July 2005 update: no, even earlier, there have been artists' impressions available since 2004). There has been a bit of controversy about a few things to do with the plan, but nobody in Peterborough has, over the three year period that they've known roughly what the thing was going to look like, started any sort of campaign about it that has achieved enough traction to register on google.
Indeed, there is something of a shortage of local colour in these media stories. In the Times (update: and in the Peterborough Evening Telegraph, same one both times), one local parent is quoted, saying that her son was "devastated when he discovered he would not be able to kick a football around at lunchtime" (the sport of football keeps showing up in these stories, also a bit of a red flag for me since the sport of football is such a rich source of sentimental bullshit). The only other quote in the Times story (other than the quotes from Alan McMurdo, the headmaster) is from a headteacher in Liverpool, who also mentions football.
The BBC report does a big deal quoting Tim Gill, an "independent play expert" (ie consultant) who has written a book called "No Fear: Growing up in a risk-averse society" but nevertheless does not appear to be a Furediite. Tim Gill is a bona fide expert on playgrounds, but quotes like "crazy" and "bordering on inhuman" do not usually come from people who have carefully considered something, and this looks a bit like a rentaquote. Nobody else is quoted at all.
The Cambridge Evening News might have been thought to be pretty well placed to tap into this vein of local outrage. However, it looks as if their story has been generated after a press release from four Cambridge city councillors (ie not representing Peterborough), plus a ring round of MPs.
It is hard to tell as their site search is a bit frustrating, but Peterborough Today (update: actually, I think the newspaper is called the Peterborough Evening Telegraph) does not seem to mention any local campaign against this school and I am not sure that they have done a story about the no-playground thing at all (update: oh no, they did, but it appeared on 2 May and is nearly word for word identical to the Times one. What's going on?) There is an online petition against the school with 127 signatures (most of them locals from Peterborough, many of them kids), but it was created on May 7, postdating the Times and BBC reports and therefore is as likely to be a part of the echo chamber as a genuine reflection of local views. There is a very, very strong smell of media creation to this story, as far as I am concerned. That doesn't mean that it won't turn into a genuine local issue of course, but that doesn't appear to be how it began.
In any case, I am not so sure that the media reports of no playgrounds and no playtimes are accurate. The plans of the site certainly contain quite a few largish greenish flat things with no buildings on them; I am not an expert on what constitutes a "playground" these days but they certainly don't look like educational space. And regarding timetabling, if you look at the proposed school day on that website, you can see that although there is no "playtime" scheduled, "Period 3" is nearly two and a half hours and all the other periods are an hour and a half (Period 4 is marked "Enrichment/Extension", which I am not sure what it means).
In their general FAQ they say "The large numbers of pupils attending the Academy will necessitate the use of a flexible and staggered day that will enable the Academy to operate without the need for very large numbers of pupils moving around the buildings at any one time". This suggests that they are not planning on having hour-and-a-half double lessons back to back with one another. I would have thought that this most likely means that groups of children smaller than the whole school will end up with their unsupervised breaks at various times spread over the day, but there isn't a big single playtime in which all the classes chuck out. It would not at all be out of the general run of things for someone trying to explain this concept to a journalist to have been quoted as saying the things that Alan McMurdo is quoted as having said.
All the architects' drawings in the brochure and on the website seem to show pupils hanging around and socialising with one another in largish public spaces; on p5 of the prospectus they are actually lounging around on the lawn. Could it be that the Times has got the wrong end of the stick? Could it be that the blogosphere has covered itself in glory once more? Hmmmm; I will reserve judgement for the time being. I will simply add this - to draw any firm conclusions about McMurdo the headmaster's personality and competence (as opposed to taking the piss out of him for talking about "hydrating" or similar, for which there is no excuse) is to implicitly assume he has been quoted fairly, accurately and in context by the Times and this is really quite a strong assumption to make.
Update: More from the Times. (Actually the previous article was the Sunday Times). It looks like I am right about playgrounds, but was wrong to suspect them of a stitchup about playtimes; McMurdo is in favour of a pretty packed school day, with short and supervised breaks. I am not sure how this fits in with the illustrations which might potentially be quite misleading.
But anyway, "If we assume that this report in the Times is a complete and accurate representation of the situation then" is it necessarily so bad?
Here is the website of the ScholaEuropea in Luxembourg. It has 3802 pupils. Here is a map of the school. It does not appear to have much of a playground (zooming around on the google maps satellite photo suggests that there is a bit of a playground outside the "Maternelle" area, but there certainly doesn't appear to be the sort of playground you would need for 3802 pupils to all play in at once; there doesn't appear to be any area suitable for playing football on). It has a few lawns and outside areas between its several buildings, rather like the Thomas Deacon Academy. It isn't a school which has been foisted on the deprived peasants of Luxembourg, by the way; it's the largest of the European Schools, for children of EU officials. They are all pretty big.
It is, of course, 73% larger than the proposed "Thomas Deacon Academy" about which we are all a fluster. If you take out the pupils in the "Maternelle" and the primary school, then ScholaEuropea is about the same size as the Thomas Deacon Academy at 1948 pupils, but I'm not sure that this is a valid thing to do. In any case, it's a big school without much of a playground, and although I can't find any plan of the TDA (update: I did, see above), the stylised one on its website looks not entirely unlike the ScholaEuropea. It also offers the International Baccalaureate in the sixth form … hmmm, it's almost as if somebody concerned with the development of this school has been looking around at international comparisons, isn't it?
I've no real idea whether a school as big as this can work, but the question of whether it can or it can't is an empirical one, where the answer ought to involve rather more evidence and rather less prejudice than we've seen so far. I am pretty sure that the plans for breaks in the day isn't as described in the Times, but I don't know if the actual plan they have is any more sensible. I am in general rather suspicious of schemes that can only work if they have really talented managers at the top, preferring ones that are robust enough to handle merely adequate administration. But, sometimes you have to give people their head, and talented people (which Alan McMurdo certainly seems to be, from a brief google search – he's one of the best people in the country for science education) need to be allowed to develop
It's a reversible investment anyway. If it turns out that the kids are dropping of tiredness, it is not exactly going to be the hardest thing on earth to stick a couple of breaks in the day. There is a whacking great field and sports centre (including, good God, a football pitch! The nation is saved!) on that site, part of which could be repurposed to a playground; there might even be some neighbouring land they could buy. Worst case scenario, the whole thing looks like it would make a decent Travelodge so the money will not be entirely wasted.
At the very least, I'm making a plea for some sort of intellectual charity here (from you lot, that is, not from me; I gave at the office). It is true that some ideas are so obviously stupid that they can be dismissed without careful consideration of the budget plans or the academic literature. But not so many as you'd think, and it certainly makes sense to have a little bit of a look to make sure that your initial information was representative and not spun. I'd hate the anti-managerialism to fall into "common-sense" populism, because that is the one form of organisation that's actually known to be worse than managerialism. If we're going to have a whole load of rules saying what kinds of schools can and can't be built, with these rules being based not on scientific evidence but on "common sense" rules developed by people extrapolating their own personalities into management principles, then how the heck is that not managerialist?
One thing you missed here: local outrage wouldn't work, unless you reckon the planning process has some authority over the internal management of schools. It's a superduper academy, see? No local authority control, direct report to adonis.adonis@dfes.gov.uk, 51 per cent of the governing body appointed by Perkins Engines Ltd.
ReplyDeleteThere was a big campaign against the Peter Vardy "I Can't Believe It's Not Bob Jones University" academy up north. That failed but the Conisbrough one didn't. And the question of the layout of the school buildings and playgrounds isn't a school management question; it's fairly and squarely a planning issue and Peterborough Council did in fact require quite a lot of changes to the plans before granting the application, according to their website.
ReplyDelete1. I suspect the flat green things are not playgrounds but playing fields, which are not the same thing (especially when it is wet, as intermittently it is in England).
ReplyDelete2. The absence of a campaign may be a bit of a red herring as people may not have realised that this was going to happen (if it is). Have the plans for the school day been around as long as the plans for the buildings?
3. As it's now several days since the story broke, has there not been time for Mr McMurdo to issue a correction or a clarification if either be appropriate?
4. You're right that the plans (if they are as reported) would be reversible, but even so would we not like to know where they came from? One of the problems with these city acadamies is that they do provide a little laboratory space for businesspeople to try out their ideas which are not necessarily based on any experience in education or knowledge of the field. I'm not sure that this is the way in which genuine educational innovation should be attempted. Is this something Mr McMurdo has proposed on the basis of his own experience, something he has discussed with other educationalists first - or is it a wacky idea dreamed up by either Perkins or the head himself? It's not unresaonable to ask.
I certain jumped in on this issue and misread the timetable as being 8-6, instead of 8-4, which is much better, and only 8-3 on Fridays.
ReplyDeleteSo you might have a point. Still seems a bit odd to have no hard playgrounds though, if they're right.
Of course a lot of children hate playtime, and so are probably hoping The Times is right. I can remember (this is in the late 1980s early 1990s) our school had lots of playgrounds, but watching Neighbours for a while became the main lunchtime activity. When we were in the Sixth Form we discovered playing pool in a local pub. So that's the real issue - does the Thomas Deacon Academy have an on site pub with a pool table? If not, where did all the money go?!
No, I'm pretty sure that people have been aware of it as there are one or two references in the Peterborough media to some complaints about this and that. But no big campaign; it didn't even have any hits on the general "anti academy alliance" website, which is odd given that it's the biggest single such project ever.
ReplyDeleteI think the physical plans have been around for a lot longer than the school day plans.
My guess is that function follows form here; the realities of land prices in Peterborough meant that if you were going to have a school this big then it wouldn't have a playground that could accomodate the whole school (or at least, not without sacrificing organised sports facilities) and that McMurdo is basically making a virtue out of a necessity. So I'm not sure it necessarily has much educational theory of any sort behind it.
On your 3, I don't agree, no. If I were him, I would be praying that it all died down and keeping gob shut in case the Mail (who can mangle a quote like nobody's business and are the Pagnanini of stitch-ups) got involved.
It might be a good idea or it might be a bad idea; I'm just a little bit worried about the ratio of analysis to fact here.
it's 8:45 to 4 I think, as the period from 8:00 is just timetabled "Breakfast in the Refectory".
ReplyDelete1. I think people have been aware of the academy all right: I was thinking of the specific plans as related to the school day. It's not clear to me how long these have been in the public domain and if they've only recently been made available then there's no mystery as to the absence of protest.
ReplyDelete2. If this is really making a virute out of necessity then it's quite wrong for McMurdo to pretend otherwise. Would parents really not be entitled to have a Head who will tell them the truth about the basics of school policy and philosophy?
3. I don't see your point about not issuing a statement at all. Statements says specific things and while it's of course entirely possible (indeed it may be normal practice) for the Daily Vile to misquote even a written statement (or take given phrases wholly out of context) this is at least less likely in the local press. It would amaze if if some sort of letter to potential parents wasn't at least being composed: some sort of "some of you will have read stories in certain newspapers" type of thing.
I'd guess the local newspaper would be the place to look - at least if the Search function was working, which it ain't.
I think it might be asking a bit much of Mr McMurdo to require that he be as cynical as I am about his own plans.
ReplyDeleteThe Wikipedia page says that "a recent poll found that many people were opposed to the plan", but without source
Hard to believe there's an unsourced claim on Wikipedia.
ReplyDelete' If we're going to have a whole load of rules saying what kinds of schools can and can't be built, with these rules being based not on scientific evidence but on "common sense" rules developed by people extrapolating their own personalities into management principles, then how the heck is that not managerialist?'
ReplyDeleteI didn't ask for the development of 'a whole load of rules saying what kinds of schools can and can't be built', and I can't remember reading another blogger who did: not Natalie Bennett, not Harry Brighouse, not Alex Harrowell, not Jamie Kenny. 'Meticulous research typical of the blogosphere'- indeed. After several years' blogging, is there not something tiresomely 2002 about putting so much effort into burning a strawman of your own construction?
I did say that local electorates should be allowed to vote on the people who decide the policies of local schools. Alex's comment above shows that he has the same kind of criticism in mind.
That could mean local authority control of schools or it could mean a switch to a 'school board' model of local education governance. There was a vote on whether there should be a local academy, following which local democratic input into school policies vanished. I'd also note that I don't think we do live in a 'managerialist' state and I don't think that the 'managerialist' critique really is the Key to all the Mythologies.
Another piece of meticulous research of your own comes with the revelation that the school has sports pitches. Yes, and the Times story we all linked to said so very clearly, and added that the school will give the kids regular organised PE lessons. But either the journalist who wrote the piece invented two direct quotes and one paraphrase- in which case the absence of any protest by the men quoted is rather striking- or the project manager and headmaster really said some striking things: ' “We are not intending to have any play time,” said Alan McMurdo, the head teacher. “Pupils won’t need to let off steam because they will not be bored.”…Miles Delap, project manager at the academy, said: “…We have taken away an uncontrollable space to prevent bullying and truancy.” Delap... said that playgrounds did not fit into the concept.’
That was what all the irate bloggers was objecting to: not the absence of fields, but the absence of 'unstructured' breaks. I don't, myself, subscribe to the Kenny notion that we all need to read Counterinsurgency theory to understand Blair, and McKeating's 'me too' temper tantrum was risible where it was not unreadable. But I largely agreed with Natalie, Harry and Alex.
Kids in Luxembourg go home in the early afternoon and can let off as much steam as they want as they are not working in class till 3.30. English kids- not so, hence a break in the middle of the day seems to be quite a good idea. On the other hand, maybe this is a briliant idea, but it seems a little odd that the parents of the kids involved don't get a say on the issue.
Your enthusiasm for 'experiments' with someone else's children rather strongly recalls the 1960s enthusiasm for tower blocks, felt chiefly by people who didn't have to live in them. It might well be the case that the Whitehall machine which has done such a brilliant job in Iraq can excel in micromanaging the nation's schools- in partnership, of course, with 'the private sector' which never makes a mistake anywhere, certainly not when running public services. Personally I feel a little queasy at the prospect, but I'm sure that's just my lack of charity.
'What all the irate bloggers were objecting to', of course, and there are two 'strikings' in one sentence. There's no playground where I work.
ReplyDeleteI didn't ask for
ReplyDeleteto be honest, I didn't ask for this little rant, delighted though I am to have it. Not all of this post is directed at you Dan, so if the cap fits, don't wear it. I have a copy of "Carly Simon's Greatest Hits" that you might be interested in.
I did say that local electorates should be allowed to vote on the people who decide the policies of local schools.
No, you referred to "schools without playgrounds". The presence or absence of a playground isn't a policy; it's a piece of real estate and the local authority is, in fact, the deciding body for planning applications.
Your enthusiasm for 'experiments' with someone else's children
For what it's worth, both my children attend state schools in the London Borough of Camden, which has been known to carry out the odd social experiment from time to time.
and, reflecting my lesser trust in journalistic quote mangling than you:
in which case the absence of any protest by the men quoted is rather striking
No it isn't; this piece actually appeared in the Sunday Times (the distinction isn't clear on the website), so if they had complained immediately, we still wouldn't hear about it until May 13, and probably a lot later since IIRC the Times doesn't have a readers' editor or corrections column.
'Not all of this post is directed at you Dan, so if the cap fits, don't wear it...(Shopworn joke about 'You're so Vain' follows).'
ReplyDeleteYes, that is rather a problem you created for yourself when you demolished a number of feeble bloggers without either quoting from their arguments or even naming them, so that a curious reader could look up what they had said? For all we know from your post, your blogospheric antagonists objected to this Academy because there was insufficient space to carry out acts of Satanic worship.
Dsquared quoting me:'I did say that local electorates should be allowed to vote on the people who decide the policies of local schools.
To which Dsquared replies: No, you referred to "schools without playgrounds".
To which I now reply by quoting my own, remarkably fine, post: 'The local parents were not consulted as to whether they wanted their children to be sent to a playground-less school. They now have no democratic way of changing this decision...Here we have a clear example of why local democracy can’t be dismissed as the obsession of a few anoraks...(we must) give the people most affected by their policies the democratic right to vote them out of power.
So I think we can agree that my post was largely about local electorates having a say in education policy, and only the mysterious form of dyslexia you suffer from, which leaves you perfectly able to read any sentence not including the word 'local', prevented you from grasping this simple fact. The same strange reading disorder may be worsening, however, as you manage to accuse me of believing that the post was entirely about myself when I actually mentioned five other bloggers' posts, four of them intelligent.
We await McMurdo and Delap's complaint that Geraldine Hackett actually invented direct quotes attributed, by name, to them: which would be a sacking offence on the Times. Ah, what was that ringing phrase? 'Meticulous research typical of the blogosphere'. Given that you can't even read comments on your own blog, I'd advise just a little hesitation before you float the possibility that a journalist told at least two direct and provable lies.
which would be a sacking offence on the Times
ReplyDeleteGiven the ethical record of their chess correspondent I'm not sure they're all that high-minded.
a playground-less school
ReplyDeleteahum.
We await McMurdo and Delap's complaint that Geraldine Hackett actually invented direct quotes attributed, by name, to them
She definitely didn't do this; as far as I can see, she may not have spoken to them at all, since the quoted speech from McMurdo in the Sunday Times article (the ST is still, I think, a different newspaper to the Times, it's not like the Express and Sindie) is identical and the quoted speech from Delap is nearly identical to the quoted speech in the Peterborough Evening Telegraph article from five days earlier, where it was attributed to my favourite journalist, "Staff Copy".
The Peterborough Evening Telegraph article also quotes Mr McMurdo as saying "But he said the policy would be kept under constant review, especially for the younger pupils just joining the school", a quite important point which the Sunday Times didn't have space to mention, although it did find space to mention that the building is apparently nicknamed "the Blancmange".
Geraldine Hackett (who I notice you call a "fine journalist", which I assume means "friend or acquaintance" so sorry for this, but you did bring it up) also writes:
Britain’s most expensive state school is being built without a playground
while the PET correctly writes:
Britain’s most expensive state school is being built without a playground
getting it right that a) the school is now built (there's a picture of Alan McMurdo standing in front of it) and b) that everyone has know for some time that it didn't have a playground.
rats. second quote there should obviously have been
ReplyDeleteThe Thomas Deacon Academy never had any plans to build a playground for kids to play traditional school yard games.
Surely you can delete and repaste comments on your own blog?
ReplyDeleteI knew you'd try this on. You deny that I wrote about local electorates voting about schools, you say that I didn't but wrote about schools without playgrounds, I quote sentences about local electorates and you say 'Aha! One of your sentences is also about schools without playgrounds.'
ReplyDeleteSo I did write about local electorates and you can't bring himself to admit it. The first time may have been your poor reading, the second time is definite dishonesty.
Never met Geraldine Hackett. The PET article had some quotes which were reproduced word for word in the ST, and others which were slightly different. In either case we're either accusing a journalist of making direct quotes up- which gets you sacked, especially when you do it of the manager of a £46m project- or they did say the things they are quoted as saying. I, and everyone else who has commented on this bar you, find those things reprehensible, but no doubt this will be met by another effusion of 'policemen walking in circles eh?' or mentions of posts by Chris Dillow which you didn't like (pin-making, secret ballot, etc), regardless of the fact that he hasn't written on this, or...or any irrelevant junk that might cloud the issue, really.
I will close by doubting the good faith of any City banker who affects to believe that 'he said the policy would be kept under constant review ' means anything other than 'and this plus three pounds fifty gets you a cheese sandwich'.
Dan, the local electorate were consulted about the school being built without a playground. Is anyone else confused about this? The plans for the school were set out for public consultation by the council, consulted on, altered in response to submissions and then aproved, by the local councillors.
ReplyDeleteI think you're being very naive about journalism (and you are making a quite specific and strong claim about the Sunday Times' disciplinary policies which I don't think you can back up either). If I say "there will be breaks between lessons for all the children, but we're staggering them throughout the day because we don't want to have a big single playtime because it is uncontrollable" and a journalist quotes me as saying "we don't want to have a big single playtime because it is uncontrollable", then they haven't "made a direct quote up", but they've clearly stitched me up in a misleading manner. Looking at McMurdo's quotes in the PET article, in his prospectus and taking into account the circumstantial evidence (like the pictures of kids lounging on the grass), I suspect that this is what has happened.
As far as I can see, what has happened here is that you've leapt to a lot of conclusions based on not a lot of evidence and a heck of a lot of personal prejudice.
ejh: "New Blogger" gives you surprisingly little control over the comments; I suppose I could delete the whole thing but I couldn't be bothered.
No playground, eh? Next they'll be building the bogs indoors. Softies.
ReplyDeleteIs anyone else confused about this?
ReplyDeleteYeah, I am. It's not clear to me that it was clear to anybody until recently that there was no playground (even if it should have been). I'm not sure I've made that clear.
I continue to think that if McMurdo felt he'd been substantially misrepresented then we would more than likely have had a retraction by now. On the balance of the evidence, I do think the plans are probably pretty much as we've been presented with them, but naturally this could turn out to be wrong.
I also think that educational experiments should be carried out openly and for the reasons stated. It's not at all clear to me that this is the case here either (though again, this may turn out to be tosh).
Re: the comments, I was thinking you could have copied them, deleted the old ones, pasted them, amended the quote so it said what you wanted and then re-posted with Bob being your uncle at the culmination of the process.
re comments: ahh I see, that's quite a clever idea.
ReplyDeleteAs far as I can tell, the state of play is that the plans (including the missing hard playground) have been available since 2004, and that the Hitchiker's Guide joke isn't applicable; their newsletter kept publishing self-congratulatory stories about how many people came to see them.
The plans about the school day I am much les sure about; there isn't any information available about when they've been presented, other than that they were discussed at a sort of town hall meeting with one of the schools that is closing down, after which meeting Alice Kenilson talked to the Evening Telegraph. That was the week before last.
I think everyone's being much too optimistic about retractions and corrections. My only experience with this is that I was once very badly stitched up by the FT (who accurately quoted a research note I'd written but ommitted to mention that it was six months old and things had changed a lot in the meantime), and I never got jack shit in the form of a correction, even though the guy admitted he'd screwed me. Matthew Turner has, IIRC, generally had very bad luck in persuading the Times to publish corrections.
I once had a quote entirely invented for me by a freelance writer on a football magazine. In that instance I invoked the Press Complaints Commission and a retraction was forthcoming next issue. I imagine the magazine was substantially less powerful (and therefore possessed rather less impunity) than a newspaper within the Murdoch empire. I do think a local Peterbough paper would probably print a correction, or simply report that a leter from "controversial local head tacher Alan McMurdo" (or wotever) had been issued.
ReplyDeleteI don't know that I'd spot the absence of a school playground on a plan unless I was told it was there, on the grounds that I wouldn't be looking for it. Quite clever really, I can just imagine the planners going "ho ho ho, that's the one thing they'll never expect" and rubbing their hands together...
Oh yeah, I remember where I saw the name before. Not the first time the toys have gone out of the pram in all directions.
ReplyDeleteoh that's just Dan. He is always like this but you have to remember he's being ironic. Hitler was always being misunderstood that way too.
ReplyDeleteIs anyone else confused about this?
ReplyDeleteI am, but I am notoriously a Moron, so don't worry.
How about we ignore the (immensely boring IMHO) question of English local government and consider the issue of what's the big deal about the kids not having "unstructured time during school. Forget all the crap about what life was like when you were a kid, and vague claims by the usual new-agey "children are embued with a very special spirituality" nonsense, and tell me, with real data, why this is an issue. After all, from what I see above, the kids are in school for what, 8 to 10 hours of 5 days a week, so it's not like there's no time outside school for "unstructured activity".
ReplyDeleteThe one line of attack that might possibly be reasonable, IMHO, is some sort of claim that when kids leave school they go home and spend time with no-one but their family (and perhaps one or two close friends), and that this leads to some sort of problems with lack of being able to negotiate with other people or something. But even then I'd need some evidence to be convinced that this is a real problem, and an issue with kids of this age. After all their were plenty of kids in times past that grew up almost alone of farms, or taht are home-schooled in the US. Are they all fsckups (especially when you factor out the fact that the parents of the home-schooled are probably pretty dubious individuals in the first place)?
I ran away from pre-school because I was forced to waste my time playing rather than read, and spent all my playtime in school reading, and I turned out (IMHO) just fine, only regretting that so much of that youth time, when the brain is so capable of learning, was wasted rather than pushing me more aggressively. One doesn't have to go to JS Mill extremes to believe that childhood should be about more education, not less.
One swallow does not a summer make, but if everyone else is going to give their anecdotes, there's no reason I can't do likewise.
The point is that educational experiments should be carried out openly for proper reasons, with everybody knowing what is happening and why.
ReplyDeleteThis discussion might benefit from some more details on the likely workings of the newspapers involved. So I'm going to provide them, probably at excessive length.
ReplyDelete"Staff Copy" is a byline that generally means the opposite of what it says; it's what you'd put on a story from a freelance or an agency. You'll find agency stories in the Mail bylined "Daily Mail Reporter" or "Daily Mail Foreign Service"; they turn up in The Times as the work of "A Correspondent". So the stories could be near-identical because an agency or freelance submitted the same story to the PET and the ST; the PET runs it as agency copy, while the ST has a staff reporter get a couple more quotes on the subject of "But this is terrible!" and then sticks her byline on it (that would be fairly standard practice).
However, the Peterborough Today website seems to stick "By Staff Copy" on more or less anything without a byline (some of the letters pages have it, even), so this could be PET staff copy incompetently put on the website and then either sold on to the ST by the reporter or lifted. The Peterborough Today website seems to be pretty unreliable at giving reporters bylines.
A freelance or an agency might have sensationalised the quotes a little (a temptation of being paid by the story) but the ST doesn't seem to have done much more stitching-up of its own, because its quotes are almost identical to the PET's. If it's anything like the evening paper I worked on, the PET's subs won't have had time to turn honest agency copy into a stitch-up, and their education reporter (if her byline has dropped off) would have to be very stupid to screw over Alan McMurdo, because he's going to be a really important source for several years to come.
Now, what would happen if the story was badly misleading and McMurdo was hopping mad?
You're right, D-Squared, that a correction from the Sunday Times is unlikely, especially by now; it would probably take a solicitor's letter and strong evidence, and in that case the gap between story and correction might easily be two weeks or more.
The PET, on the other hand, can't afford to waste money on legal costs and can do without the emnity of the headmaster of its largest local school. But it is also likely to be averse to publishing something that's explicitly a correction. On the news pages, you'd be looking for either a disguised correction - a rather similar story with the misleading omissions filled in - or a strong "head hits back at critics" story (something like this one from 2006). You might also expect a letter from McMurdo in the paper pretty quickly.
None of that has happened. It would probably have happened by now. The only reason that it might not have done, if McMurdo does think he's been stitched up, is because he wants more than a letter or a follow-up story - he's gone to the editor and demanded an explicit correction or apology, or he's got his solicitors involved. In that case, it could take weeks to resolve. But if the story is in that kind of dispute, I'd be surprised to find the PET letting their readers slag him off on the letters page more or less every day since the story appeared - see http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/comment (the headline only tells you about the lead letter: the block for May 10, "Did voters see beyond colour?", includes a reader saying that the school plans were misleading on the playground issue). They've also left the comments active on the original story, which they probably wouldn't if it was in dispute.
So the story is most likely broadly accurate - and, if it isn't, the head may be satisfied with the tough, businesslike image the stitch-up has given him.
Thanks very much Jasper. I think that guy complaining in the letters column is quite confused (and presumably he doesn't live near the site or he could check it out himself) because the school does have playing fields and sports pitches (as it said in the plan); what it doesn't have is a hard-surfaced play area (as it also didn't in the plan). This is in general why I'm a lot more sceptical about the merits of micromanaging schools and hospitals and such by local plebiscite; not everyone is terribly well informed.
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, I hadn't read more than a couple of lines of that letter - was just skimming for a response from the school. But that they're letting letter-writers get facts wrong on the issue reinforces my impression that they haven't had a complaint.
ReplyDeletenice post D2
ReplyDelete(that's all)
1900 kids doesn't sound that super-huge, tbh. My high school had about 1500 - 1600 pupils, which is about average for the area I grew up in.
ReplyDeleteAfter all their were plenty of kids in times past that grew up almost alone of farms, or taht are home-schooled in the US. Are they all fsckups (especially when you factor out the fact that the parents of the home-schooled are probably pretty dubious individuals in the first place)?
ReplyDeleteI used to deal with homeschooled people quite a lot in northern Australia, and in my experience a lot of them were indeed fuckups.
'I think you're being very naive about journalism'...
ReplyDeleteEver been on the newsdesk of a small publication (like, say, the PET) when someone with access to lawyers (like, ooh, someone handling £45 million worth of contracts) rings to complain that he's been misinterpreted? I have- I'm guessing you have not. You're not a journalist: you're someone who writes the occasional eighty quid opinion piece for the Guardian, who are apparently happy to have 'expert' commentary on subjects like Iraq from someone who had to be informed (on a Crooked Timber thread) that the Sunni were not actually the majority of the Iraqi population. The PET is hugely outgunned here and a regional paper editor will always issue a (cheap) retraction if there is even the faintest hint that he might be on shaky ground - which can prove very expensive.
On the question of honesty, you have mis-stated or not stated, in this thread and elsewhere, the criticisms rather plainly made by five other bloggers- strawman construction worthy of a pimply adolescent. On the question of what those bloggers objected to, you have not even attempted to state their arguments or mount your own defence. To state things one last time, with no hope whatsoever that you will respond honestly: giving children no unstructured playtime is a bad idea, and the direct quotes from named managers state that this will happen. Removing any democratic input from parents into the running of state schools is a bad idea and one that you have simply not worked out how to defend (yes but there was a democratic debate on the planning of the fields, no but they shouldn't have democratic control, yes but maybe they do but there's been a misquotation).
'Dan blah blah blah...Hitler was always being misunderstood that way too.'
I used to think that Ophelia Benson of 'Butterflies and Sneers' was the worst ever writer to rely on ignorant analogies to Hitler and Stalin, with Mel Phillips winning the Mainstream Media prize, but it's clear Dsquared is training hard for the championship.
It's amusing, too, that ejh is here: I feel an urge to serve a small, sticky sample of the appalling pseudo-poetic prose with which he closed his unread blog.
ReplyDeleteTake it away, E. Justin Horton (who, on the evidence, is a close friend of Private Eye's well-known poet E. J. Thribb):
' If I do not stop here, I shall never start again elsewhere: there is writing that needs to be done, in the sense that I have a need to do it. To start it, to complete it, to see what happens to it subsequently: to see what happens to me subsequently and to find out who I am now. What I have to write, I think I know. Whether I have still the words to write it - I do not know. I think I do.'
How True that is; how Very True.
hmm Dan:
ReplyDeleteyour paragraph one is rank speculation, rather like the way that Stalin used to speculate about what the editors of newspapers might think about him.
On the other hand, your second paragraph is still missing an admission that I am, in fact, clearly right about the question of the physical playgrounds; your omission here reminds me very much of how General Vo Nguyen Giap often failed to acknowledge important points that undermined him.
You of course wouldn't have heard of the Peterborough Evening Telegraph at all if I hadn't told you about it; this failure to give any credit to me at all is just the sort of thing that Jean-Paul Bokassa used to go in for. I doubt you will give me any more thanks for providing this link which advances the story and clarifies what McMurdo is actually doing. He's delegating the provision of breaks to individual class teachers, but getting rid of unstructured playtimes.
You can see that I now have to update the claims in paragraphs 7-9 of my post; it is all the easier for me to do this because I have managed to avoid making hysterical accusations of dishonesty at people - I've actually worded things quite carefully in order to make it clear that I didn't have any evidence that there was a complaint, saying things like "thanks Jasper" above. I have also explicitly (in paragraphs 10-15) allowed for the possibility and discussed my belief that things would not be too bad if everything was accurate. In this case, I have behaved like a sensible commenter, contrasting rather with your own approach which reminded me more of the viz character Millie Tant[1].
I suspect that you might be about to declare that I am totally discredited here and go on a victory lap of other people's comments sections proclaiming your triumph like Napoleon^H^H^H^H a cunt[2]. However, it seems likely to me that the kind of people who's opinions I care about (Julius Streicher, Pierre Mendes-France, people like that) will be more impressed by the fact that I've carefully and scrupulously kept in touch with the facts, than by you screaming. You might want to have a word with "Eric the Unread" and "Socialism in an Age of Waiting" about the long term success of the tactics you're using[3].
As far as I can see, McMurdo makes a decent case against "unstructured playtimes", and he is an actual expert. So I can simply include him by citation, which puts my assertion one step above your unsupported assertion that "giving children no unstructured playtime is a bad idea". "Honestly", it appears that I have an atom more evidence in favour of my argument that "no they don't"; it all reminds me a bit of Enoch Powell.
You'll also note from the link that, in the manner of Scipio Africanus, Dr McMurdo has already made one significant change to his school day in response to local parents (getting rid of the idea of staggered school start times), which I think is all that needs to be said about local democracy and schools. It is simply and practically impossible to run a school without the goodwill and co-operation of the parents; or at least, it is for something like a City Academy that's closely monitored for attendance and results, like the Hanseatic League. It's a very blinkered view of democracy and local politics to think that it has to mean councils and elections; this fallacy used to bedevil Archbishop Makarios III.
[1] A literary allusion here rather than a historical one, as I am not joking.
[2] ditto
[3] Although arguably both of these are historic figures, I am not using them in the way described in footnote [1] above.
PS: You're not a journalist: you're someone who writes the occasional eighty quid opinion piece for the Guardian
Is that what this is about? Oh Dan. Oh Dan.
by the way, Dan, if you're currently wondering why I called you a cunt, and to forestall you wondering at some future date why your comments keep disappearing (which is very much the final destination of the trail you appear to be going down), it was this phrase:
ReplyDeleteTo state things one last time, with no hope whatsoever that you will respond honestly
which did it.
Oh, dear, how sad. If you want to call someone a cunt, go ahead and do so- I've done it myself, recently to some fool called Justin, and frankly it's a boring and unimaginative form of abuse. The fact that you then feel the need to write a second comment glossing this four-letter word as if your using it were an act of some significance is really quite pitiful. I have been sworn at by instructors on some of the nastiest courses in the British military, who were menacing not because they swore but because they could and in some cases did follow up their words with something nastier than mere talk. You're a stockbroker typing 'rude' words into your own comments thread, and you will have to forgive me for giggling slightly as I read your solemn pronouncement of my vaginal status. As I have long suspected, you are merely Mark Steyn without the beard: a fluent but ignorant scribbler whose deep doubts about his own masculinity are rather inadequately hidden behind supposedly 'tough' talk.
ReplyDelete....I think that the real key, by the way, was the reminder that you postured as an expert on Iraq whilst not knowing the majority of Iraqis were Shi'ite. That was merely stupid, but what disgusts me on this subject is that you also, in your most fatuous manner, posture as an opponent of the horrors of war in Iraq when your supposedly prescient pre-invasion post actually advocated an invasion of the country by US troops so long as there was a Democratic President. There is a C-word that applies to you and it isn't (ooh, rude) 'cunt'. Two syllables, denotes a person who behaves in a way lacking all courage. I don't actually mean this as an insult but 'coward' fits you like a glove.
I have been sworn at by instructors on some of the nastiest courses in the British military, who were menacing not because they swore but because they could and in some cases did follow up their words with something nastier than mere talk
ReplyDeletehahahahaha. You know that a flamewar has really got good when Dan starts reminding you how tough he is. I have always believed that "making mock of uniforms that guard you when you sleep, is more or less morally obligatory when they boast about how tough they are on the internet".
by the way, talking about people behind their backs much? Coward is as coward does, coward.
Since you are apparently an expert on very obscure Crooked Timber threads from early 2004, you might perhaps remember that I have revisited the "Anti This War Now" position more than twice and noted myself that I had made a mistake in joking about it. Perhaps if I had been on some of the nastiest courses in the British Army, rather than some of the nicest ones at the London Business School (ahhh, the sundowner cocktails), I might have had the sheer moral courage necessary to continue to insist I was in the right, then go running off to Paulie's blog to cheerlead for myself like a excited little schoolchild. I am sure that this is what Douglas Bader would have done.
Well, he wouldn't have gone running.
ReplyDeleteSo what's with the dead French prime ministers?
ReplyDeleteDunno; always had a soft spot for PM-F. He spent most of his political life trying to talk the French nation out of their latest damn fool idea. I also thought he was one for the list of socialist air aces, but Google has him flying Boston bombers.
ReplyDeleteHe also declared "ici, c'est la France" in 1954 and so committed his country to the Algerian war.
ReplyDeletePM-F was a bomber navigator, and I don't think it was in Bostons. Lacouture's biog says which type.
ReplyDeleteI linked to this thread on 'Never trust a hippy', just as you mentioned this thread on Crooked Timber- we both said that there was a row on (fact) and we both felt that we were winning (opinion). At the same time arguing with you face to face in emails and comments threads? That's cowardice? No it isn't- not when you do it, not when I do it. What a precious little world you live in.
ReplyDeleteA coward accepts undeserved praise as a prescient opponent of the Iraq invasion, rather than saying 'hang on lads, thanks for the compliment but I even I thought silly things about how good it would be to invade Iraq if we had a Democratic President'. You made a few shamefaced comments on CT that you'd been a little too jokey about Iraq. Can we been honest? You advocated an invasion so long as there was a Democratic President. Find the courage to say so.
More unpleasantly, you are a coward who ended an online argument with one other blogger (the guy who writes SIAW) by insulting his mother- calling her a cunt, too, since creativity is rather your weak point. That's the act of a coward- swearing at someone's mother on a comments thread knowing that you would not have the guts to do so in person.
The whole mention of nasty instructors etc is not to parade my awfully limited tough guy credentials, but to attempt to teach you that there is nothing very impressive about saying 'rude words' to people- they are frightening or hurtful only when the people using them can or will do other things. I will say that it's probably meant to be hurtful to swear at someone's mother, but it's one of those contemptible acts that reflect only on the aggressor, not on his would-be victim. Shall I dig out the link to that little incident or will you?
In this argument, you have proved that you have the minimal hand-eye co-ordination required to type the dreaded 'c-word', the lack of maturity that required to regard this as a hugely important act, and the really quite advanced stupidity and crassness necessary to say that someone disagreeing with you was 'like Hitler'. You dishonestly quote other people's writing and then sulk like a sweary five-year old when your dishonesty is put to you. You have established nothing that would cast doubt on the honesty of the journalists who quoted McMurdo and Delap, you have blithely ignored the fact that we all knew that the school had sports fields, and you have spouted forth tedious and frequently self-contradictory arguments about the various criticisms made of the Academy scheme.
You have never actually 'made mock of' any army uniforms (which would be a matter of profound indifference to anyone who wears such uniforms: 'watch out lads, the fat welsh stockbroker's coming!'). You are merely convincing yourself that you have in some weird further attempt to bolster your sagging masculinity.
You are cwoss- vewwy, vewwy cwoss- with me because, with a ridiculous degree of politeness, I publicly told you that your scribbling on the BNP was foolish and wrong. You are a coward who makes vicious attacks on 'pooves' while demanding more and more hate speech laws, so long as those groups 'protected' by them threaten race riots.
The saddest thing is that you mistake yourself for some kind of polymath when you are, in reality, that dreariest of cliches: the stockbroker with reactionary opinions.
I vaguely mention that I might be the most appalling cunt in the world, but it wouldn't change a thing about schools in Peterborough ...
ReplyDeleteDan, you are not good at jokes, are you? I have been inserting references to Hitler and Stalin in every comment I addressed to you, ever since your not very funny "gotcha" when I claimed to be "an anarchist about principles but a Stalinist about facts".
You advocated an invasion so long as there was a Democratic President. Find the courage to say so
from the archives:
"I can't remember which particular newspaper column or weblog post motivated me to write this out longhand, but it's a version of an argument I've been repeatedly making in response to various flavours of the "pro-war left" argument that opponents of the war are somehow deficient in their loathing for Saddam Hussein (by the way, another entry for the Catechism: "What kind of a dictator was Saddam? A brutal dictator"). My defence against this charge is that I was, provably and repeatedly, in writing, in favour of war against Saddam Hussein. I just simply didn't want it to be this bunch of pillocks in charge of it. "
My position is, always has been, that I opposed the war specifically because I thought the George W Bush administration would screw it up. While at the same time specifically not disavowing any invasion at all; I did want someone to get rid of Saddam Hussein but I didn't want to ditch the entire apparatus of international law, or to have the invasion overseen by a moron. That was one of my most popular posts, by the way, and I have returned to the theme of the "Anti-This-War-Now" position on a number of occasions, never once claiming that I was against the war in principle (in fact, specifically disavowing this position, because I still don't believe it), so I don't quite know why you missed it; you also apparently missed the post entitled "Anti Which War When?", in which I specifically discuss what was wrong with the assumption that the Democrats might have pursued things better.
You have established nothing that would cast doubt on the honesty of the journalists who quoted McMurdo and Delap
hence my caution in making the original suggestion that the quotes weren't accurate, my specific care to avoid accusing anyone of dishonesty and my prompt update.
you have blithely ignored the fact that we all knew that the school had sports fields
"never consulted about playground-less schools", ring a bell much? I dug up the fact that the plans had been out for consultation since 2004, which you appear to be blithely ignoring yourself.
More unpleasantly, you are a coward who ended an online argument with one other blogger (the guy who writes SIAW) by insulting his mother- calling her a cunt, too, since creativity is rather your weak point
"SIAW" is (or was) a collective identity, and therefore does not have a mother. I knew this at the time, they knew it, they knew I knew it and now you know it.
You are cwoss- vewwy, vewwy cwoss- with me because, with a ridiculous degree of politeness, I publicly told you that your scribbling on the BNP was foolish and wrong.
It is hardly in character for me to be vewwy vewwy cross with people simply for telling me that my writing is foolish and wrong - you are not, apparently, the first person to do so, although the actual pair of mistakes you made in your specific post are quite new.
I'm actually slightly annoyed with you because a) you started referring to private email conversations in an attempt to win a comments battle - I accepted your apology at the time in rather good spirit because I wasn't cross then, but I now wish I hadn't because you seem to have taken it as an indication I would let you get away with anything. b) you went posting nasty things about me on other people's blogs that you thought I wouldn't read (which is surely one step lower than saying things you wouldn't say to someone's face), and now c) you're making all sorts of silly assertions about my personality, on the basis of knowing more or less nothing about me.
The whole mention of nasty instructors etc is not to parade my awfully limited tough guy credentials
shyeahhh right.
there is nothing very impressive about saying 'rude words' to people-
ReplyDeleteNor, indeed, filth.
He also declared "ici, c'est la France" in 1954 and so committed his country to the Algerian war
ReplyDeletewell true, Julius Streicher was also not a wholly uncontroversial or flawless figure either.
"Look out lads, the fat Welsh stockbroker's coming" - could be the motto of a blog, really.
ReplyDeleteoddly enough I was thinking the same thing about "I've been called a cunt by some of the biggest and nastiest men on the NASDAQ".
ReplyDeleteThat's a high standard of nasty.
ReplyDelete